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Need advice from high level players on stance

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O! Ju Qian View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/18/2013 at 4:55am
There's a bad habit of mine that I started to notice during my games and that is that I have the tendency to loop more than I loop drive.  What I found out is that I am probably not spreading my legs enough.  I always thought I did, but now I'm starting to doubt myself.  I need advice from those power loopers out there, how far do you need to spread your legs in order to get shots to be a little more consistent in terms of power and do you stay like that for most shots including short games.

When I do spread my leg even more (imagine how Oh Sang Eun spreads his legs during a game) during a training session, I feel like I can move better and best part is that I can now make faster shots rather than spinny loops.  I also feel like my upper body is a lot lower than usual with even more space between my legs. 

My other problem is that when I game, my body cannot seem to remember the stance or how wide apart my legs should be, so I get extremely frustrated when that happens because I can't play my game.  I also feel like I'm having trouble transitioning to my lower stance from the service position. 

I actually want to play a more forehand oriented game, but with more aggressive shots and good recovery.  I can move, but.....my shots lack that consistency of power. 

I do play a lot of choppers by the way.  I do learn a lot from them, but I always feel like that kinda carries over to the next opponent who is not a chopper.  Do you guys have any tip on how to step away from it once you are done playing against a chopper?


Edited by O! Ju Qian - 09/18/2013 at 5:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:27am
hi O!
I think you need a logical approach.
If you spinning too much (upward too much)and you want to drive (more forward) correcting it is all about:
1. Hitting the ball at the right time. This means don't let the ball drop
because it is correct to spin a ball that has dropped lower. So you must make sure you are going to contact the ball at peak or earlier
2. In order to go forward properly you must first go back. Its like coiling a spring. Its not enough that your stance is a crouch, you must put your weight back onto the back foot and you will get your power from pushing with the back leg.
Many players who lack power put their back knee under the contact point, with the result they only have good form spinning upward. To have good form with the weight going forward you need to a little further behind the ball, so that its natural for your leg to drive forward more.
Hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:35am
i'm not a high level player but you the way you spread your legs its supposed to be wider than your shoulders. also, having a wide stance lowers your center of gravity enabling you to have better balance and stability which equals to better movement. and yes timing is the key to stronger shots, taking the ball early off the bounce is faster compared to taking it on the peak or late. also, how is your weight transfer or shifting when doing a forehand? how does your body pivot together with your shoulders and waist? also if you want to hit harder build a lil bit more muscles and develop muscle endurance for your strokes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:38am
also, how is your swing? is it a snapping swing or a long straight arm swing ? it also affects your power
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:58am
I'm not high level, but here is my two cents:

You are penholder and FH oriented player. You also experience that spreading stance can extend the comfort zone by swapping body between two legs. It means you don't have to move much, in comparison to high stance.

When you've finished the serve, quickly spread your legs in FH stance and cover the left table (if you are right hand player). U are CP player, so you only need one step moving to the right and back to the left, that's all. Then you can play FH oriented game easily.

After playing with a chopper, then ask someone play counter loop with you for a while, then you can get away that feeling.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 10:48am
I do find it easier to weight transfer when my stance is lower because I can feel it going from one leg to the other.  I guess what I want to know is if it's necessary or does it depend on the player.  My only concern with the low stance is that it's a little "tricky" for me to fh flip balls.

When I want to get more power in my shots, I feel like my left leg is extending even more when I place more weight on my right leg.


Edited by O! Ju Qian - 09/18/2013 at 10:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 11:08am
I'm also not a high level player.

I think your approach is totally wrong. Sounds like you think having the body low will solve your problem.

Similar to what Yogi_bear stated.
If you want more consistency in terms of power, then you must not just hit with your arm or your stance, but hit with the whole body.

The moment your body is moving as a whole, one foot to another. Weight transfer from one side to another, swing from one side of your body to another, then your problem will be solved.

In terms of consistency, then maybe you should train with multiball and go for 100 ~ 150 ball drills to just 2 or 3 placements. Get your body to be able to handle work load, then in match situation 10 balls in a row with high consistency of power is easy.

Whats your level of play?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 11:23am
I'm not a high level player either, but ZAP had the same suggestion that came to my mind.  You may be thinking too much when you hit the ball.  The kinds of problems can often be fixed with extensive multiball drilling (where you have to move a bit to get to the ball) because eventually the most efficient stroke becomes engrained.  In Cali there should be plenty of coaches or trainers.  The other thing you should do is video yourself. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

also, how is your swing? is it a snapping swing or a long straight arm swing ? it also affects your power

I'm certainly not high level.

you can turn your torso faster for more power, you may be playing too 'safe'.

what is your rating ?


Edited by jt99sf - 09/18/2013 at 12:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 12:43pm
I'm not high level either, but think that all that others have said are high level advice!

I have a tendency to execute more power loops than spin loops. I drive my power by using more body but the key is learning to take the ball early in front of you and commit the body forward rather than up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 12:44pm
It is recommended that you are in lower stance when receiving. Also, whenever you have a few microseconds to spare, check if your legs are too straight and if necessary bend them a little. Maintain softness and spring in your legs/knees/hips.

Also remember - when your stance is low, you have to make sure you are not "dropping your butt". That is you need to maintain a slight forward body angle. Otherwise, if your legs are spread and your body is leaning backward, you are screwed - it is next to impossible to quickly move from that position. You need to work on that so that you adjust your body immediately if you find yourself anywhere near that posture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 2:18pm
Actually, when I play I generally don't worry if a loop is spinny vs. powerful, I just want to land one more than the other guy in that point!   Obviously I don't want my third ball loop to be such a weak little spit ball that the opponent steps around and rips it or flat hits it really hard.  If that is not happening, then the more important thing is to be steady and controlled, and know that the first loop against underspin is different from pretty much the rest of the point. 

When I watch really high level players play (and I am fortunate in that there several here) the thing that often surprises me is how hard they are NOT hitting the ball.  Of course they can hit really hard, or really spinny, but they only do it at the right time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

I'm also not a high level player.

I think your approach is totally wrong. Sounds like you think having the body low will solve your problem.

Similar to what Yogi_bear stated.
If you want more consistency in terms of power, then you must not just hit with your arm or your stance, but hit with the whole body.

The moment your body is moving as a whole, one foot to another. Weight transfer from one side to another, swing from one side of your body to another, then your problem will be solved.

In terms of consistency, then maybe you should train with multiball and go for 100 ~ 150 ball drills to just 2 or 3 placements. Get your body to be able to handle work load, then in match situation 10 balls in a row with high consistency of power is easy.

Whats your level of play?


I'm about 1700.  I normally don't have trouble playing against tougher players, but if you catch me on a day/night where my shots are not working, then I can loose mainly because my shots don't pose any threat.  There will be times when my shots are fast, then it sort of disappears on a random day and for a long time. 

I used to do this kind of drills with a mentor of mine for hours at his club where I focused more on adding power on forehands from backhand corner to the middle, but he moved away years ago and he closed down the club.  yea, kinda sucks. 

Now, going back to the lower stance, I guess I'm a little conflicted now.  All I can say is that I can move my whole body when my stance is lower.  I do not feel like I'm only using my arm only if that's what you are asking, but I rely a lot on weight transfer from one leg to another and waist movement.  When I try doing that on different stance, which is more of relaxed stance with knees bent kinda like when you are just hitting forehand and backhands for warm up only, I simply feel less balanced during the game.  Maybe I bring my legs too close w/o realizing it.  I can also tell you that I'm not "squatting" just to get low.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by O! Ju Qian O! Ju Qian wrote:


I'm about 1700.  I normally don't have trouble playing against tougher players, but if you catch me on a day/night where my shots are not working, then I can loose mainly because my shots don't pose any threat.  There will be times when my shots are fast, then it sort of disappears on a random day and for a long time. 

I used to do this kind of drills with a mentor of mine for hours at his club where I focused more on adding power on forehands from backhand corner to the middle, but he moved away years ago and he closed down the club.  yea, kinda sucks. 

Now, going back to the lower stance, I guess I'm a little conflicted now.  All I can say is that I can move my whole body when my stance is lower.  I do not feel like I'm only using my arm only if that's what you are asking, but I rely a lot on weight transfer from one leg to another and waist movement.  When I try doing that on different stance, which is more of relaxed stance with knees bent kinda like when you are just hitting forehand and backhands for warm up only, I simply feel less balanced during the game.  Maybe I bring my legs too close w/o realizing it.  I can also tell you that I'm not "squatting" just to get low.


I think you need to work on your footwork, take bigger steps getting to the ball.  

Since you're in CA, get some coaching and video the session for future reference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

It is recommended that you are in lower stance when receiving. Also, whenever you have a few microseconds to spare, check if your legs are too straight and if necessary bend them a little. Maintain softness and spring in your legs/knees/hips.

Also remember - when your stance is low, you have to make sure you are not "dropping your butt". That is you need to maintain a slight forward body angle. Otherwise, if your legs are spread and your body is leaning backward, you are screwed - it is next to impossible to quickly move from that position. You need to work on that so that you adjust your body immediately if you find yourself anywhere near that posture.


I'm not dropping my rear, but I feel some stretch around my thigh area.  After a little while, they do become rather loose.  My upper body leaning forward with knees bent.  Not squatting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by O! Ju Qian O! Ju Qian wrote:


I'm about 1700.  I normally don't have trouble playing against tougher players, but if you catch me on a day/night where my shots are not working, then I can loose mainly because my shots don't pose any threat.  There will be times when my shots are fast, then it sort of disappears on a random day and for a long time. 

I used to do this kind of drills with a mentor of mine for hours at his club where I focused more on adding power on forehands from backhand corner to the middle, but he moved away years ago and he closed down the club.  yea, kinda sucks. 

Now, going back to the lower stance, I guess I'm a little conflicted now.  All I can say is that I can move my whole body when my stance is lower.  I do not feel like I'm only using my arm only if that's what you are asking, but I rely a lot on weight transfer from one leg to another and waist movement.  When I try doing that on different stance, which is more of relaxed stance with knees bent kinda like when you are just hitting forehand and backhands for warm up only, I simply feel less balanced during the game.  Maybe I bring my legs too close w/o realizing it.  I can also tell you that I'm not "squatting" just to get low.


I think you need to work on your footwork, take bigger steps getting to the ball.  

Since you're in CA, get some coaching and video the session for future reference.


See the problem, I can move around the table and cover good distance, but my loops/stroke are just not synchronized with the footwork.  You can move, but you are not hitting it right or visa versa. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by O! Ju Qian O! Ju Qian wrote:

Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by O! Ju Qian O! Ju Qian wrote:


I'm about 1700.  I normally don't have trouble playing against tougher players, but if you catch me on a day/night where my shots are not working, then I can loose mainly because my shots don't pose any threat.  There will be times when my shots are fast, then it sort of disappears on a random day and for a long time. 

I used to do this kind of drills with a mentor of mine for hours at his club where I focused more on adding power on forehands from backhand corner to the middle, but he moved away years ago and he closed down the club.  yea, kinda sucks. 

Now, going back to the lower stance, I guess I'm a little conflicted now.  All I can say is that I can move my whole body when my stance is lower.  I do not feel like I'm only using my arm only if that's what you are asking, but I rely a lot on weight transfer from one leg to another and waist movement.  When I try doing that on different stance, which is more of relaxed stance with knees bent kinda like when you are just hitting forehand and backhands for warm up only, I simply feel less balanced during the game.  Maybe I bring my legs too close w/o realizing it.  I can also tell you that I'm not "squatting" just to get low.


I think you need to work on your footwork, take bigger steps getting to the ball.  

Since you're in CA, get some coaching and video the session for future reference.


See the problem, I can move around the table and cover good distance, but my loops/stroke are just not synchronized with the footwork.  You can move, but you are not hitting it right or visa versa. 

have your hitting partner move you from side to side with different ball placement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by O! Ju Qian O! Ju Qian wrote:

Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

I'm also not a high level player.

I think your approach is totally wrong. Sounds like you think having the body low will solve your problem.

Similar to what Yogi_bear stated.
If you want more consistency in terms of power, then you must not just hit with your arm or your stance, but hit with the whole body.

The moment your body is moving as a whole, one foot to another. Weight transfer from one side to another, swing from one side of your body to another, then your problem will be solved.

In terms of consistency, then maybe you should train with multiball and go for 100 ~ 150 ball drills to just 2 or 3 placements. Get your body to be able to handle work load, then in match situation 10 balls in a row with high consistency of power is easy.

Whats your level of play?


I'm about 1700.  I normally don't have trouble playing against tougher players, but if you catch me on a day/night where my shots are not working, then I can loose mainly because my shots don't pose any threat.  There will be times when my shots are fast, then it sort of disappears on a random day and for a long time. 

I used to do this kind of drills with a mentor of mine for hours at his club where I focused more on adding power on forehands from backhand corner to the middle, but he moved away years ago and he closed down the club.  yea, kinda sucks. 

Now, going back to the lower stance, I guess I'm a little conflicted now.  All I can say is that I can move my whole body when my stance is lower.  I do not feel like I'm only using my arm only if that's what you are asking, but I rely a lot on weight transfer from one leg to another and waist movement. When I try doing that on different stance, which is more of relaxed stance with knees bent kinda like when you are just hitting forehand and backhands for warm up only, I simply feel less balanced during the game.  Maybe I bring my legs too close w/o realizing it.  I can also tell you that I'm not "squatting" just to get low.


You could eliminate this for a start. When you warm up, by all means go slowly, but do so with correct stance and weight transference, sort of slow mo of the real thing just remember to recover to the correct starting position for each shot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 2:44pm
Again.  Multiball drills.  Only way to fix this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 6:10pm
O! Ju Qian,

Are you moving like this? If not then that is the problem I was refering to.
Feet 1st
Knee 2nd
Waist 3rd
Arm/swing 4th
Wrist 5th

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=165282920301605&set=vb.443481379036123&type=3&video_source=pages_video_set  - up to 1 min, you can ignore the rest

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=205954799567750&set=vb.443481379036123&type=3&video_source=pages_video_set

This 17 year old lady is still not perfect. Her footwork is really lazy, and I have been trying to jump start it.
But if you are not young like her then you don't need to move as quickly. Very important for your FH looping, is to put more pressure on your right foot (if you are right handed). Also by using a half step - steping towards the ball and put pressure on the knee will help your swing. I don't think I have a clear video on this to show you.


Edited by ZApenholder - 09/18/2013 at 6:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

O! Ju Qian,

Are you moving like this? If not then that is the problem I was refering to.
Feet 1st
Knee 2nd
Waist 3rd
Arm/swing 4th
Wrist 5th

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=165282920301605&set=vb.443481379036123&type=3&video_source=pages_video_set  - up to 1 min, you can ignore the rest

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=205954799567750&set=vb.443481379036123&type=3&video_source=pages_video_set

This 17 year old lady is still not perfect. Her footwork is really lazy, and I have been trying to jump start it.
But if you are not young like her then you don't need to move as quickly. Very important for your FH looping, is to put more pressure on your right foot (if you are right handed). Also by using a half step - steping towards the ball and put pressure on the knee will help your swing. I don't think I have a clear video on this to show you.


You know how she consistently keeps the v shape stance, that is what I mean by spreading the legs enough to feel the center of gravity.  Thanks to your video I think I know what I'm doing wrong.  I have the tendency of bringing the legs together sometimes and this is probably the "lazy" footwork I have.  

What I need to do is try to keep those legs spread out most of the time to be balanced or at least immediately come back to it.  It isn't about having a "low stance," but more about having a consistent stance for every stroke.  Also, the coach was commenting on the girl's movement/footwork something about being "under your toes" on your shots.  What did he mean by that?  I really appreciate the video and the help Zapendholder.

I also like your explanation about using the half step and knees.


Edited by O! Ju Qian - 09/18/2013 at 7:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:04pm
Take advice from the highest level of players:

Your shots lack consistency of power because you lack consistency of timing in both footwork and stroke, no matter your own self-assessment. This isn't rocket science once you learn the stroke: focus on the ball, see where it's going, shuffle there, same position/stroke every time. Biggest reason I see for failure in this is people get lazy and just hope for the same shot to come back while standing still.

Originally posted by O! Ju Qian O! Ju Qian wrote:

There's a bad habit of mine that I started to notice during my games and that is that I have the tendency to loop more than I loop drive.  What I found out is that I am probably not spreading my legs enough.  I always thought I did, but now I'm starting to doubt myself.  I need advice from those power loopers out there, how far do you need to spread your legs in order to get shots to be a little more consistent in terms of power and do you stay like that for most shots including short games.

When I do spread my leg even more (imagine how Oh Sang Eun spreads his legs during a game) during a training session, I feel like I can move better and best part is that I can now make faster shots rather than spinny loops.  I also feel like my upper body is a lot lower than usual with even more space between my legs. 

My other problem is that when I game, my body cannot seem to remember the stance or how wide apart my legs should be, so I get extremely frustrated when that happens because I can't play my game.  I also feel like I'm having trouble transitioning to my lower stance from the service position. 

I actually want to play a more forehand oriented game, but with more aggressive shots and good recovery.  I can move, but.....my shots lack that consistency of power

I do play a lot of choppers by the way.  I do learn a lot from them, but I always feel like that kinda carries over to the next opponent who is not a chopper.  Do you guys have any tip on how to step away from it once you are done playing against a chopper?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by O! Ju Qian O! Ju Qian wrote:


What I need to do is try to keep those legs spread out most of the time to be balanced or at least immediately come back to it.  It isn't about having a "low stance," but more about having a consistent stance for every stroke.  Also, the coach was commenting on the girl's movement/footwork something about being "under your toes" on your shots.  What did he mean by that?  I really appreciate the video and the help Zapendholder.

I also like your explanation about using the half step and knees.



Stand ready by the front half of your feet and not the heel. This way your motion will be forward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by O! Ju Qian O! Ju Qian wrote:



I'm about 1700.  I normally don't have trouble playing against tougher players, but if you catch me on a day/night where my shots are not working, then I can loose mainly because my shots don't pose any threat.  There will be times when my shots are fast, then it sort of disappears on a random day and for a long time. 



I suggest focusing more on consistency and placement and less on power.  Make your opponent uncomfortable with your placement and don't miss very often and you'll find yourself suddenly winning games and matches that you used to lose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by AgentHEX AgentHEX wrote:

Take advice from the highest level of players:

Your shots lack consistency of power because you lack consistency of timing in both footwork and stroke, no matter your own self-assessment. This isn't rocket science once you learn the stroke: focus on the ball, see where it's going, shuffle there, same position/stroke every time. Biggest reason I see for failure in this is people get lazy and just hope for the same shot to come back while standing still.

Originally posted by O! Ju Qian O! Ju Qian wrote:

There's a bad habit of mine that I started to notice during my games and that is that I have the tendency to loop more than I loop drive.  What I found out is that I am probably not spreading my legs enough.  I always thought I did, but now I'm starting to doubt myself.  I need advice from those power loopers out there, how far do you need to spread your legs in order to get shots to be a little more consistent in terms of power and do you stay like that for most shots including short games.

When I do spread my leg even more (imagine how Oh Sang Eun spreads his legs during a game) during a training session, I feel like I can move better and best part is that I can now make faster shots rather than spinny loops.  I also feel like my upper body is a lot lower than usual with even more space between my legs. 

My other problem is that when I game, my body cannot seem to remember the stance or how wide apart my legs should be, so I get extremely frustrated when that happens because I can't play my game.  I also feel like I'm having trouble transitioning to my lower stance from the service position. 

I actually want to play a more forehand oriented game, but with more aggressive shots and good recovery.  I can move, but.....my shots lack that consistency of power

I do play a lot of choppers by the way.  I do learn a lot from them, but I always feel like that kinda carries over to the next opponent who is not a chopper.  Do you guys have any tip on how to step away from it once you are done playing against a chopper?


Yea, I've seen those videos in the past.  They really help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:23pm
Focus on minutia of technique is also misplaced. Once you start shuffling like that guy in the vid, there's no way you can stand straight up on the heels. The quicker you shuffle, the wider your stance will become. wturber is correct, your stroke will increase in power naturally once you're in the right place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:26pm
Yea, I will focus more on improving and fixing my footwork.  Thanks guys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by AgentHEX AgentHEX wrote:


Your shots lack consistency of power because you lack consistency of timing in both footwork and stroke, no matter your own self-assessment. This isn't rocket science once you learn the stroke: focus on the ball, see where it's going, shuffle there, same position/stroke every time. Biggest reason I see for failure in this is people get lazy and just hope for the same shot to come back while standing still.
 


This is something I see in many people and that I'm trying to train out of myself.  I think one of the contributing causes is what I call, "Admiring your shot." You may not literally be looking on in admiration, but the fact is that many people stand still after making their shot as though they are spectators and not participants.  In doing so, they are squandering a good portion of the half a second or so that they have while their opponent is trying to deal with what was just hit to them. 

If they would reset to a more neutral position immediately - as part of the finish of their stroke - they'd be in much better shape to move into position for a good return.  There is certainly extra physical effort involved, so your point about being "lazy" definitely applies. Good footwork anticipates the need to return to a more neutral position and leaves you not only on balance, but ideally has your body's inertia moving you back into a more neutral position. 

But I think a lot of this onlooking is that players have conditioned themselves to observe rather than to react to their own shot and situation.  They don't even know that they should be resetting while the ball travels to their opponent.  They stand there and admire their shot.  And when it comes back and they have a hard time returning it, they wrongly conclude that the problem as that they didn't hit it hard enough to begin with.



Edited by wturber - 09/18/2013 at 8:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 9:09pm
On the broader issue raised by this thread:

To help illustrate just how important footwork is to "power", hit some hard-ish shots against a robot that puts the ball to same place. Now move just 6-8in in either direction from the natural stroke position and try the same thing. Now move 12in+ away and do the same. Now look at how wide the table is and the all space the opponent has to place the ball.

The next thing to try is bit harder to grasp: slow down the time between shots adequately and give yourself an indeterminant awkward pause before or after the shots. See how much your timing can be off by before seriously effecting power.

Everyone has a "sweet spot" in both space and time where the shot is most effective. With a lot of training high level player can increase the size of that spot slightly, but by far the largest diff between pros and amateurs is their ability to get to that spot and placing the ball so their opponent can't. On this second point, recall this spot is in both time or space. A more powerful shot pushes the former, and well-positioned one the latter.


Edited by AgentHEX - 09/18/2013 at 9:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2013 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:



This is something I see in many people and that I'm trying to train out of myself.  I think one of the contributing causes is what I call, "Admiring your shot." You may not literally be looking on in admiration, but the fact is that many people stand still after making their shot as though they are spectators and not participants.  In doing so, they are squandering a good portion of the half a second or so that they have while their opponent is trying to deal with what was just hit to them. 

If they would reset to a more neutral position immediately - as part of the finish of their stroke - they'd be in much better shape to move into position for a good return.  There is certainly extra physical effort involved, so your point about being "lazy" definitely applies. Good footwork anticipates the need to return to a more neutral position and leaves you not only on balance, but ideally has your body's inertia moving you back into a more neutral position. 

But I think a lot of this onlooking is that players have conditioned themselves to observe rather than to react to their own shot and situation.  They don't even know that they should be resetting while the ball travels to their opponent.  They stand there and admire their shot.  And when it comes back and they have a hard time returning it, they wrongly conclude that the problem as that they didn't hit it hard enough to begin with.



Returning to neutral is one way of putting it. IMO better is always act with some purpose. When you have a purpose, all the motions that go into affecting this action takes care of itself. Once the ball leaves the bat, you should already know approx where it's going. Is the opponent in good position to counter? If so, get back a bit to anticipate their attack & counter if you're aggressive player, or in position/posture to block if defensive minded player. If they're out of position, get ready for weaker return and kill with power or down the line. Pretty basic stuff, nothing fancy.

Standing in the same place is a very easy bad habit to develop because the reality is most shots do get hit back to the approx same location, esp at first. Lower level players don't have the skill or wherewithal anyway to vary placement consistently. It's a necessary hump to overcome because better players do.
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