Xu Xin lifting backspin ???
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Topic: Xu Xin lifting backspin ???
Posted By: winterdrops
Subject: Xu Xin lifting backspin ???
Date Posted: 05/19/2016 at 6:55pm
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Hi guys, Could anybody translate what Lui Guilang says to Xu Xin about lifting backspin balls? I am really shocked about how a pro player who has been world number 1 for a few times is getting instructions about a basic stroke? Lui Guilang must be saying very important things most of us don't pay attention. Best regards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=helMPXG0BYs ------------- Stiga Infinity Fh: Bluefire M2 Bh: Evolution ELP |
Replies:
Posted By: ttTurkey
Date Posted: 05/19/2016 at 7:10pm
| No idea what he was saying, but the "who's your daddy?" stare at 1:04 was kinda funny. |
Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 05/19/2016 at 7:15pm
| Wow...just wow.. unbelievable spin when LGL loops toward the camera |
Posted By: winterdrops
Date Posted: 05/19/2016 at 7:26pm
Ha haha, very good approach :) ------------- Stiga Infinity Fh: Bluefire M2 Bh: Evolution ELP |
ttTurkey wrote:Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 05/19/2016 at 7:49pm
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My best guess: LGL - "I know you are a Timo Boll fan but you are on the CNT. Now quit spinning up that short push at the edge of the table and drive that sucker like a real man, like me." XX - "But what if I tear my rubber on the table. You know how hard it is to get real National rubbers with so many fakes out there. And I like to spin it up so I have lots of time to move back way over and cover the whole table with my Fh". LGL - "Keep spinning it up like that and you can cover all the toilets on the 8th floor with that Fh" Mark |
Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 05/19/2016 at 8:02pm
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First of all, I did not hear what he was saying. However, I believe I know what he told XX because my coach told me the same idea. It is a "new" method on lifting the backspin. You lift the ball @ the spin's "weaker position". For instance, a weaker position of an underspin is on the side. Unlike the old way (counter the heavy spin by increasing your brush), you try to lift (brush-hit) the ball on the side where the spin is weak and the hitting surface is large. Watch he showed xx the hand around 5:24 and his demo around 1:00 ------------- Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 05/19/2016 at 9:22pm
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It is difficult to make out the conversation due to the background noise but LGL is telling XX to aim for an optimal point. The first one he said something about his body being a bit high and lower would be better. The second one is a very good one. Couldn't make out the fourth one. The fifth one he told him not to do that shoulder thing and should instead pivot more and use more forearm. The issue with XX is that his point is too late(letting ball fall too far before impact.) ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: ronakvyas86
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 12:10am
 ------------- Yasaka Goiabao 5 CPEN, Donic Baracuda MAX FH & RPB |
Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 12:22am
LGL crushes forehand flick. "C'mon, XX. It's not that hard." |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 12:23am
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That guy in the yellow t-shirt - he has flaws in his looping technique against underspin. Coach has to explain him such a basic move. He made quite a few mistakes initially. I say he's USATT 1600.1300 in the Bay Area. Shall get killed against choppers in tournaments. ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 12:49am
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That's the funniest thing about the video - this is the best chopper killer in the world being told that his backspin looping technique can be improved... ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: gekogark1212
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 1:11am
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To be fair I think XX lacks the absolute chopper crushing abilities of previous generation penholders like Ma Lin and Wang Hao. XX just plays like a shakehander in that regard. Side note: In this day and age I can no longer shorten Ma Lin to just ML haha ------------- (\__/) (='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake, (")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake. |
Posted By: topspinoccr
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 1:26am
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What LGL told Xu Xin: 1. wait until the backspin ball is safe and dropping 2. opponent expects a slow spinny loop and prepares to counter it 3. use waist, forearm and wrist to do a safe fast loop 4. stay low; do not move forward with the loop
------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70075&title=feedback-topspinoccr" rel="nofollow - My Feedbacks |
Posted By: Snakefish
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 2:40am
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Why didn't LGL tell XX about this technique 5 years ago ? OR did LGL just noticed XX is a penholder ------------- Andro Treiber Z - fl FH: Tibhar MX-D max BH: Tibhar Quantum ProX-blue,max |
Posted By: Krantz
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 4:51am
| Nice presentation by LGL. It looks to me than LGL shows completely different stroke for dealing with backspin balls, while XX is "just" applying his usual, universal loop, which can cover pretty big variations of incoming spin, but doesn't look so effective against backspin specifically. |
Posted By: winterdrops
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 4:54am
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I guess, LGL is explaining very important tip about shoulder to lift the ball. ------------- Stiga Infinity Fh: Bluefire M2 Bh: Evolution ELP |
Posted By: ttTurkey
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 5:25am
| I thought this looked like an over the table technique for dealing with short pushes that had drifted fractionally long, as opposed to a loop against chop. |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 5:25am
Good link. Thanks for posting. I especially like how LGL keeps his eye on the student and not try to return the ball. ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: winterdrops
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 7:10am
No I don't think whole video is about flicks over the table. Obviously in the first part of the video LGL is explaining something about topspin. ------------- Stiga Infinity Fh: Bluefire M2 Bh: Evolution ELP |
Posted By: ttTurkey
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 7:55am
| I thought it looked like a fast loop kill technique off shorter balls usually associated with loop kills (LGL looked like he was deliberately pushing ahort) |
Posted By: perniciousnc
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 8:40am
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LGL is so dam awesome. He couldn't be replaced. The main lesson is that XX is not using his WRIST (LGL was demonstrating that if he had, he could lift back spin, and do forehand flip easily). WH uses his wrist to crush defenders very well I remember. 1) to let the ball drop (so that the ball is less spiny) 2) to use the wrist more (which allows him to brush the ball for a longer time) |
Posted By: GTeaLatte
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 9:14am
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From what few phrases i caught, lgl is instructing xx on a type of stroke for balls close to the table that xx would normally slow brush loop. The stroke is like a mix of a loop and a flick. You start your stroke like you would a brush loop, but a little more upright. Then on contact with the ball you use a small fh flick motion. This stroke will definetly catch many opponents offf if xx is able to master it, as the placement is rather unpredictable by the reciever. (Lgl also tells xx to stop being a sissy and dont be afraid to play agressive at the table) ------------- Stiga Rosewood NCT V FH: Stiga Genesis M red BH: Stiga Mantra S black |
Posted By: Victor_the_cleaner
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 9:54am
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I never like LGL's style or game or strokes, ugly flathitting mostly.. But I have to admit, in this video I myself found his stroke much better and cleaner than that of XX. XX couldn't get the ball at right time and with right angle and had to lift and loop. LGL just drove it straight and clean forward. Old dog still got stuff..
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Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 12:01pm
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That individualistic thinking is what holds back the other teams. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: The Observer
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 12:30pm
In the first part, LGL was telling XX that the twisting of the shoulder should be part of power generation and shouldn't happen before contacting the ball, then he said the timing needs to be right when it is safe to power the ball, last he said the wrist can be used to add control and power and demonstrated with flipping. In my opinion, it is easier for a shorter player like LGL to do it, but XX does look a bit slow to me, again mostly due to his size. Edit: LGL also said to lower the body more...
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Posted By: remmpfremm
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 4:03pm
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Regarding Ma Lin's absolute chopper crushing ability - must have been temporarily out of order in the 2003 world championship, when he encountered Joo See Hyuk (remember how Ma Lin let his racket fly after the match?). Regarding the very interesting Liu Guoliang/ Xu Xin video (thanks!), I do not understand Chinese, but here is what I see: In the first part, the training session seems to focus on slightly longer returns, and one point that Liu Guolinag emphasizes is the difference between a) stronger body turn and corresponding inward arm swing (as in the fast, parallel return to Xu Xin's backhand at 1:04), and b) the technique where the arm is `stopped outside' more, leading to a different direction (to Xu Xin's forehand in this case, as left-hander). In the second part, it seems to be more about flicking of shorter returns, but again with surprising direction changes, and certainly some explanation about how to accelerate the short balls also with relativeley closed racket, not `lifting' too much. Interesting also: For obvious reasons of politeness and functionality, Xu Xin plays his returns relatively `harmless' , not, for example, pushing aggressively, so Liu Guoliang can demonstrate properly - that I like in particular. ------------- B. |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 5:11pm
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LGL to XX: Don't be such a sissy; Your loop's way too prissy. Stay close to the table; That is, if you're able. Now do what I tell you Or else I'll expel you. If you won't agree with me There's always the Beijing KFC. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: MLfan
Date Posted: 05/20/2016 at 10:31pm
| Guys, it's really simple. Looping half-long backspins over the table is not the same as dealing with choppers...Xu Xin, despite his incredible looping ability, lacks the ability to kill low, half-long backspins. Ma Lin's half-long backspin loop-kills, if you remember, were the best, because he could use his wrist and shoulder so well when the incoming balls were too short for full body energy transfer. LGL is trying to teach Xu Xin the technique. When Xu Xin encounters these balls, he often waits longer for the ball to drop and loops a slow ball. LGL wants him to be able to loop it like Ma Lin with the deceptive movements to earn the point right away. |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 05/21/2016 at 12:19am
You've nailed it. Xu Xin just waits too long with a large backswing, and misses the perfect opportunity to attack at the highest point (or even slightly before that). LGL seems to be telling him to shorten the stroke, use more body rotation and there was something about using the shoulder for more power, and the wrist action to counter backspin effectively. LGL's loopkills still look so good! ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: IanMcg
Date Posted: 05/21/2016 at 2:56am
Okay, but this doesn't help me at all. Do you actually know what LGL is saying?
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Posted By: MLfan
Date Posted: 05/21/2016 at 6:20am
They sure are! But I'm also incredibly impressed with LGL's short pushes. My God, it's been 14 years (since 2002 I think) since he was training as an athlete, and still, he displays his phenomenal touch. I seem to recall LGL suggesting to Ma Lin in another video to use his shoulders whilst serving to impart even more spin on the ball. I guess this shoulder rotation is another key component to increasing quality on your shots/serves, aside from deception.
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Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 05/21/2016 at 10:04am
Think outside the box. Waldner is credited for revolutionizing the modern attacking style - known in China as the fast-attack looping style by combining the best elements Europe and Asia have to offer. That style is in and of itself an individual inspiration built upon the collective empiricism of former players. By that definition, every top attacking player is playing a variation of that style within his/her own limitations. Now, you don't hear people say they play 80% of that style, do you? After Mizutani lost to Yoshimura at the 2012 All-Japan Championships, he refused to read any interview that featured Yoshimura as he simply did not want to admit defeat. He lost to Niwa the next year. Different from last time, he faced it. He picked up every magazine he could find that featured Niwa, in an attempt to figure out what he lacked. He even swallowed his pride and consulted Niwa and Kenta Matsudaira for advice on the chiquita. The moral of the story is that even if you are at the top of the game, there is always something to learn from others and integrate into your own game. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: rick_ys_ho
Date Posted: 05/21/2016 at 1:54pm
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Pros' technique has flaws and room to improve, that's common. The stuff shown in the video is not easy: Power loop a half long push return in which ball drops close to the table, and fast flick a short push return with low arc and good speed. Especially the second one, it requires excellent ball feel and timing. It is HARD. LGL basically help sharpen XX's third ball attack weapon.
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Posted By: winterdrops
Date Posted: 05/21/2016 at 3:56pm
Yeah, me too, I wish to see 100 persent translation? Where are those know chinese :D ? ------------- Stiga Infinity Fh: Bluefire M2 Bh: Evolution ELP |
Posted By: GTeaLatte
Date Posted: 05/21/2016 at 4:16pm
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Right here... The reason all the translations sound iffy is because of the volume at which they are speaking. We can only translate phrases that are audible. Although all are slightly different, all the translations already listed all basically summarize what lgl is saying. Its like asking a adult to translate a baby's gibberish. :x ------------- Stiga Rosewood NCT V FH: Stiga Genesis M red BH: Stiga Mantra S black |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 05/21/2016 at 4:33pm
Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen. This post was, I had hoped, obviously to be understood as satirical and not to be taken seriously. The United States Army did send me to the Defense Languages Institute 51 years ago to learn Chinese Mandarin, but not for the purpose of learning and remembering Chinese Mandarin table tennis terminology. So no, 51 years later, I don't really know what Liu Guoliang said to Xu Xin. Besides, as GTeaLatte pointed out in a post previous to this, it is difficult, if not impossible, to understand in any language what someone is saying to someone else if the transmission is nearly inaudible, or when I was a voice intercept processing operator, overridden with static, white noise, and Morse code. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 05/22/2016 at 4:45pm
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One question, was LGL using pips out or inverted rubber? ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: sandiway
Date Posted: 05/22/2016 at 7:42pm
Come on dude. It was not even his paddle. Can't you tell it's a shakehands paddle LGL is holding with inverted rubber?
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Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 05/22/2016 at 8:05pm
You can tell it was the hitting partner's paddle ------------- Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX |