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Proper order of learning |
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crs2 
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Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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 Topic: Proper order of learningPosted: 08/23/2006 at 5:53pm |
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I have a question for those of you who have professional trainers. What is the proper order to learn the stokes and developing your game? My trainer taught me drive, topspin, loop and looping against backspin. Needless to say I have a weak short game (can't serve short, can't return properly). No matter how good I can attack long serves or play against choppers I get my ass kicked by other players who have good short serves and play close to the table. It just doesn't make sense to me, why would the trainer teach me to play offensive when I can't make a decent short serve return. I have been training almost exclusively topspin for about 4 months now. It is frustrating to never get to use what you've learnt in a match because you can't get past the first 3 balls. I don't want to say anything to the trainer until you guys give me your thoughts on this. Sorry for the long post, please let me know how one should learn table tennis. Thank you. |
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Hookshot
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Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Posted: 08/23/2006 at 7:13pm |
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crs2,
You are right, you need a short game also. I have a great way to learn to push. Put a stack of 5 coins on the table about one foot from the end of the table, (on both backhand or forhand sides) whichever you want to practice. Rules of the game follow. 1) Only score points when you hit the coins. 2) Cannot hit the coins on the serve or loose a point. 3) If you hit in the net or off the table, you must serve the next point. No penelty except you have to serve giving opponent first chance at the coins. 4) If practicing pushes, must use backspin serve. 5) No topspin shots. You will be supprised how much you will concentrate. Note, sidespin mixed with push is not outlawed. Makes it much harder for them to hit the coins. It is harder than you would think, suggest playing a game to 3 or 5 points. I use this to teach kids to push and they love it. Watch out for the anti or long pips in this game.  Even 1800 players learn from this game. Let me know what you think after you try it.  Jerry |
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phrixion
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Joined: 04/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Posted: 08/23/2006 at 7:24pm |
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Sounds correct from my experience... Serve and return are totally differnt parts of the game. I imagine you can practice just serving and returning for a while to improve that part of your game, but will need to get the next strokes before you can move onto that part of the game... which is forehand and backhand chopping which is necessary to return short serves.
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linn88
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Joined: 02/04/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Posted: 08/23/2006 at 8:11pm |
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I am in the same siutation as crs2. In fact I have been learning basic stoke, loop, and drive for the past 16 months. I am not stupid afterall, and I did surprise my Chinese coach with my stokes and loops when I was taking additional lessons in Guangzhou during my business trips there (I practiced two hours daily after work during my two month-stay in China). But I learn serve and return from friends who are more experience than me. And I practice a lot of serves at home in my basement. Playing games and practice are two completely different things. If you really want to play more games, tell your trainer to teach you more of serves and returns, and help you develop your own strategies.
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azrin
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Joined: 03/22/2006 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 346 |
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Posted: 08/23/2006 at 11:00pm |
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i believe its part and parcel of the learning curve...your trainer might drill you on your basics because those are the fundamentals of modern table tennis. other than that, if you realise that your progress are no where near to your nearest rival...only than that extra information might come handy. short push, flip, placement shot, drop shot, short serve... those require finese touch, good spin reading and much more. maybe its good to get alternative resource like a video of pros playing or training. try watching carefully and analyse on those pro's in the video or other players played youve played with. once in a while do try to play with others out of your circle, it really gives you the adrenaline rush. and the most important thing is practice, because practice makes everything you do to near perfect...
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crs2
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Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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Posted: 08/24/2006 at 1:17am |
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Thank you very much for all your replies, Hookshot I will try that game for sure. Azrin, I played people from another coach's class and they all push a lot. They don't have as good loops as I do and can't attack long serves well. Instead, they have good blocks and sometimes they surprise me. I believe their coach taught them short and defensive game first, whereas I've learnt offensive shots. That is why I wondered if there is a correct order to learn table tennis shots and types of play.
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TT_Freak
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Joined: 11/21/2004 Status: Offline Points: 2672 |
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Posted: 08/24/2006 at 2:44am |
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You'll be learning the serve/serve return bit later on, probably about 2 yrs into your training. Only then will you actually have the tools to exploit the serve and return of service, until then drill your basics.
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anime_file
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Joined: 09/12/2005 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Posted: 08/24/2006 at 3:14am |
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I've had coaching for about a year and we focus mainly on counter drives and loops and footwork. My coach has showed me only basic push and serve things to get me started in the game. She won't train me on those unless I specifically ask. But I practice at clubs by myself.
If you want to put your loops into play just serve more long balls. Against beginning players this is actually pretty effective because they don't always move around for an attack and sometimes just block. If you are playing game against short serves that you are unfamiliar with just try getting the ball into play and not starting the attack right then. |
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crs2
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Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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Posted: 08/24/2006 at 3:32am |
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TT_Freak, unfortunately you may be right. Until then, a lot of lost games and frustration are coming and it kind of takes away the fun from the game you know. At least I'll learn to lose and adapt to other types of play. Thank you all for the replies. |
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Vassily
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Joined: 12/22/2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 614 |
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Posted: 08/24/2006 at 8:01am |
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Its better to learn attacking first. Then under pressure, you wont resort to passive play.
Even if not under pressure, if you learn pushing first, you are likely to push too much. |
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Harold
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Joined: 05/04/2006 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 119 |
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Posted: 08/24/2006 at 8:48am |
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May I suggest watching and learning from the pros: Smirnov: Backhand flip Saive: Forehand flip Practice on robot. Hope it helps. |
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crs2
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Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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Posted: 08/25/2006 at 1:14am |
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Thanks Harold, I'll try to learn from their matches. For everyone who has the same problem maybe this will help (I don't know how good it is, I just found it): |
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gekogark1212
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Joined: 05/06/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1121 |
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Posted: 09/02/2006 at 7:38am |
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I think you are very lucky to have someone trying to perfect your strokes. I took the dodgy path of learning ahead of myself and now I have a decent serve and attack game, but get crushed during longer rallies.
So just listen to your coach and have faith in him, let him know of your concern, but don't try to change what he has in mind for you 
Gark |
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(='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake, (")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake. |
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YATTP
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Joined: 08/15/2005 Location: Antarctica Status: Offline Points: 563 |
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Posted: 09/02/2006 at 6:35pm |
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Your trainer seems to be a really good one! If you want to learn how to play TT in a way that will enable you to play on a little bit better level in say, 5 years, you'll absolutely need solid basics. Forget about games, tournaments or whatever competition, just focus on topspin for the first 2 years.
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linn88
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Posted: 09/18/2006 at 9:11pm |
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Agree with you completely. And include basic foot-work. |
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7homuz
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Joined: 07/06/2005 Location: HKG/CAN Status: Offline Points: 1954 |
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Posted: 09/19/2006 at 10:06pm |
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the trainer i had in china told me he teaches counterdrives to the kids for the first few years, basically 1-2 years of fh, when the fh is ready then he will start teaching bh for another year or so. after that is short game, serve and attack, then game tactics and strategies.
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YATTP wrote: