The poison of the backhand.

I've recently made some notable improvements to my backhand technique. (It's still not "good", but it is "better".) What I've noticed is that backhand shots are often safer--BUT--much less likely to end the point. Because of this feeling of safety, I find myself covering much more of the table with my backhand than I used to. This is undesirable primarily because my forehand is my main "weapon". I like that. My backhand is more of a defensive shot. I like to think of myself as an aggressive, offensive player... but this new found tool has seduced me into being more passive. I don't like that.

It now takes 3 or 4 shots to end a point, when it used to take 1 or 2 when I was more dependent on my forehand. I've become complacent. I feel that I've traded power for security . My dilemma is this:

I like the increased safety and increased options of an improved backhand, but I really don't like the idea of becoming dependent on it.

I have two questions:

1) Have any of you had similar experiences?

2) What are some good drills that help to integrate the backhand and forehand? Things that might help me better understand when to be safe (with the BH) and when to attack (with the FH)?

Side note: My old coach was hesitant to teach me BH stuff until I was much, much better with my FH. He was afraid that I'd become too BH dependent and, subsequently, my footwork would get lazy. Like so many other things, I see the wisdom of his ways only too late.

 

kenneyy88 wrote: You need to develop a step around forehand after hitting backhands.

I used to do that obsessively, especially since my backhand used to be much worse than it is now. That is gratifying and effective, but it also occasionally opens up my forehand side too much. (Like many, I need better/faster footwork.)

What I'm asking for are some drills that might help me learn when to step around and when not to.

I have one idea for a good drill that I got from a Bengtsson seminar, but I'm looking for more.

Anton Chigurh wrote: I've recently made some notable improvements to my backhand technique. (It's still not "good", but it is "better".) What I've noticed is that backhand shots are often safer--BUT--much less likely to end the point. Because of this feeling of safety, I find myself covering much more of the table with my backhand than I used to. This is undesirable primarily because my forehand is my main "weapon". I like that. My backhand is more of a defensive shot. I like to think of myself as an aggressive, offensive player... but this new found tool has seduced me into being more passive. I don't like that. It now takes 3 or 4 shots to end a point, when it used to take 1 or 2 when I was more dependent on my forehand. I've become complacent. I feel that I've traded power for security . My dilemma is this: I like the increased safety and increased options of an improved backhand, but I really don't like the idea of becoming dependent on it. I have two questions: 1) Have any of you had similar experiences? 2) What are some good drills that help to integrate the backhand and forehand? Things that might help me better understand when to be safe (with the BH) and when to attack (with the FH)? Side note: My old coach was hesitant to teach me BH stuff until I was much, much better with my FH. He was afraid that I'd become too BH dependent and, subsequently, my footwork would get lazy. Like so many other things, I see the wisdom of his ways only too late.

Same happened to me to the point where my backhand is now my better shot, altho i'm very offensive with it, rather than passive. But i want to start training more again and working on my forehand footwork because it's a much more dangerous shot when i hit it.

Anton,

You had several replies, but from reading the responses, it seems the answers are not what you're looking for. Hopefully my experience will be helpful.

1. When learning backhand, you always start with consistency shots - they are the ones that will immediately make you feel that you do not necessary have to move to force your forehand in the game, but can use strategy to bring your "weapon" into the rally. So you're on the right path.

2. When your backhand will begin getting steady, you'll immediately feel that you're not working or moving on the forehand side as you once used to - this is a perfectly described feeling of improvement. While you're not "liking" it because you're not winning points with "weapons", you're winning points on consistency and defense - its a good sign of improvement in your game. Again, you're on the right path.

3. Now that you can be solid or more or less stable on the backhand, you'll need to learn to transition - how to create the point so that you can use your forehand. This is where your backhand needs to be more than "stable". If your backhand is not strong enough ( or not fast enough, spinny enough, etc ), you will not be able to pin your opponent in order to step around - so its not a matter of footwork, its a matter of utilizing backhand as a "weapon". Soft backhands, allow your opponent to attack the ball and hence, if you step around during your control backhand, your opponent will have more time to notice your movement and attack the ball in the other direction. So pinning opponent in one spot is vital.

4. One thing to remember - strong backhand complements a strong forehand and makes forehand stronger. Gatien's coach Michel Gadal worked on Getien's forehand, but Gatien's true strength was always backhand - he lured his opponents to open to his backhand because it looked weaker, but that is when he developed an uber fast step around technique to step around backhand and force his forehand into the game. If you can't develop a stronger offensive backhand, you'll need to use placement to allow your forehand into the game. How do you do that? read my next bullet.

5. If you want to use your FH weapon, you need to attack the other person's forehand with your backhand - the response most likely will be a cross court shot, now you can counter that shot - risky but... depends on when you attack the forehand. Must pin the opponent before forcing him to move and use a forehand shot. Another option is attack the hip, most likely that would give you a slow response, with plenty of time to step around, but this one is more of a gamble because some people are better at close movements than redirects to forehand ( distance movement ), so you'll need to study your opponents to figure out which strategy works best.

6. Drills to practice - Falkenberg is the one that allows you to train both forehand and backhand in a continuous motion. The other is a pinning practice. Basically you stand as close to the table as you can, then you counter with BH with partner really fast for up to 2-3 shots. Then redirect to partner's forehand, he counters, and you attack that ball. Its not an easy drill but it will make you faster and better. Once you can counter close, you can train to take a step back on parntner's FH opening and power loop the ball with your FH.

Hope this helps. Carry on.

Leshxa wrote: Anton, You had several replies, but from reading the responses, it seems the answers are not what you're looking for. Hopefully my experience will be helpful. 1. When learning backhand, you always start with consistency shots - they are the ones that will immediately make you feel that you do not necessary have to move to force your forehand in the game, but can use strategy to bring your "weapon" into the rally. So you're on the right path. 2. When your backhand will begin getting steady, you'll immediately feel that you're not working or moving on the forehand side as you once used to - this is a perfectly described feeling of improvement. While you're not "liking" it because you're not winning points with "weapons", you're winning points on consistency and defense - its a good sign of improvement in your game. Again, you're on the right path. 3. Now that you can be solid or more or less stable on the backhand, you'll need to learn to transition - how to create the point so that you can use your forehand. This is where your backhand needs to be more than "stable". If your backhand is not strong enough ( or not fast enough, spinny enough, etc ), you will not be able to pin your opponent in order to step around - so its not a matter of footwork, its a matter of utilizing backhand as a "weapon". Soft backhands, allow your opponent to attack the ball and hence, if you step around during your control backhand, your opponent will have more time to notice your movement and attack the ball in the other direction. So pinning opponent in one spot is vital. 4. One thing to remember - strong backhand complements a strong forehand and makes forehand stronger. Gatien's coach Michel Gadal worked on Getien's forehand, but Gatien's true strength was always backhand - he lured his opponents to open to his backhand because it looked weaker, but that is when he developed an uber fast step around technique to step around backhand and force his forehand into the game. If you can't develop a stronger offensive backhand, you'll need to use placement to allow your forehand into the game. How do you do that? read my next bullet. 5. If you want to use your FH weapon, you need to attack the other person's forehand with your backhand - the response most likely will be a cross court shot, now you can counter that shot - risky but... depends on when you attack the forehand. Must pin the opponent before forcing him to move and use a forehand shot. Another option is attack the hip, most likely that would give you a slow response, with plenty of time to step around, but this one is more of a gamble because some people are better at close movements than redirects to forehand ( distance movement ), so you'll need to study your opponents to figure out which strategy works best. 6. Drills to practice - Falkenberg is the one that allows you to train both forehand and backhand in a continuous motion. The other is a pinning practice. Basically you stand as close to the table as you can, then you counter with BH with partner really fast for up to 2-3 shots. Then redirect to partner's forehand, he counters, and you attack that ball. Its not an easy drill but it will make you faster and better. Once you can counter close, you can train to take a step back on parntner's FH opening and power loop the ball with your FH. Hope this helps. Carry on.

Leshxa makes some good points but there is one thing that stands out that i don't agree with. In reference to number 5 - going to the forehand isn't always the best option, puts you in a lot more danger.
 You're better off making an "effort ball" (10% faster shot into their elbow) and be prepared to step for your forehand if it comes in range of your forehand, generally it will come to roughly the middle of the table which is the idea point in which to hit your forehand from.
It's less risky but also more effective, imho.

Leshxa wrote: I forgot to mention one thing. When I began working on my backhand, my forehand shot deteriorated in consistency, power, etc. No need to worry, its part of learning. In order not to loose your strengths on the forehand side, after you strokes get stable, you must involve forehand into the drills so that it keeps moving. Our minds are just not design to remember and do everything great, when your focus sh*ts to one particular body part, the other starts to "loose its memory". Again, you're on the right path.

Leshxa, will you be my mentor?

Leshxa: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Not only did you say the words I wanted to hear, but you were very thorough and thoughtful. Excellent advice. It encouraged me while also giving me something to work on. I'm assuming you're a coach, and if not, you should be!  I'm sure I will come back to your post many times and reread it.

Vassily: Although it's not yet where I want it to be, my power is getting better with my backhand. However, I hesitate to focus too much on an "offensive" backhand like Kreanga's, simply because I have a pretty large forehand. I went to a Stellan Bengtsson seminar over the summer. Although he made me aware of many areas in which I need to improve, he also gave me a huge compliment. About my forehand, he said, "The best in the world don't hit much harder." (I hope that doesn't appear like I'm "bragging", but it's relevant to the story .) When I told him I wanted to work on a powerful backhand too, he said that's good but not to focus too much on it. Here's why:

To paraphrase, he said that having a big, powerful forehand and a big, powerful backhand as your two primary tools can be a drawback because in order to use them both you need more distance from the table. In creating that distance, you give up control of the table, which is not always ideal. He said that a smaller (but effective) backhand is better for connection balls, until you can work your forehand into the rally. And that was my concern: In trying to establish an effective, consistent backhand, I've started to become too dependent on it and have therefore started to ignore my main weapon--my forehand. But I think Leshxa has straightened me out.

But still, I agree: A big, nasty backhand "Kreanga" shot is satisfying!

To everyone else: Thanks for your time and suggestions!

Look some combinations bh-fh Schlager - they are very good.

Where many players fall down with their b/hands, they don't use them as a directional tool, you can hit a b/hand with pinpoint accuracy because you are behind the ball when you contact it. The comments by Leshxa are exellent, many many players with seemingly fantastic f/hands actually play off and set their game off their b/hands, you just have to look, everyone only sees the last shot, look at the penultimate one more often and you will see the set up. Its easier to out position the opponent with a b/hand because its a more conservative stroke requiring less committment, and its also possible to see the ball/table opponent at once because everything is framed at point of contact infront of you, you just have to look. Directionally its far harder to read where a b/hand is going and its far easier to disguise where its going for you, untimately at top levels it allows a player to delay his intentions so the opponent can't read him. Never underate the good old b/hand.......

Fruit loop wrote: Leshxa wrote: Anton, You had several replies, but from reading the responses, it seems the answers are not what you're looking for. Hopefully my experience will be helpful. 1. When learning backhand, you always start with consistency shots - they are the ones that will immediately make you feel that you do not necessary have to move to force your forehand in the game, but can use strategy to bring your "weapon" into the rally. So you're on the right path. 2. When your backhand will begin getting steady, you'll immediately feel that you're not working or moving on the forehand side as you once used to - this is a perfectly described feeling of improvement. While you're not "liking" it because you're not winning points with "weapons", you're winning points on consistency and defense - its a good sign of improvement in your game. Again, you're on the right path. 3. Now that you can be solid or more or less stable on the backhand, you'll need to learn to transition - how to create the point so that you can use your forehand. This is where your backhand needs to be more than "stable". If your backhand is not strong enough ( or not fast enough, spinny enough, etc ), you will not be able to pin your opponent in order to step around - so its not a matter of footwork, its a matter of utilizing backhand as a "weapon". Soft backhands, allow your opponent to attack the ball and hence, if you step around during your control backhand, your opponent will have more time to notice your movement and attack the ball in the other direction. So pinning opponent in one spot is vital. 4. One thing to remember - strong backhand complements a strong forehand and makes forehand stronger. Gatien's coach Michel Gadal worked on Getien's forehand, but Gatien's true strength was always backhand - he lured his opponents to open to his backhand because it looked weaker, but that is when he developed an uber fast step around technique to step around backhand and force his forehand into the game. If you can't develop a stronger offensive backhand, you'll need to use placement to allow your forehand into the game. How do you do that? read my next bullet. 5. If you want to use your FH weapon, you need to attack the other person's forehand with your backhand - the response most likely will be a cross court shot, now you can counter that shot - risky but... depends on when you attack the forehand. Must pin the opponent before forcing him to move and use a forehand shot. Another option is attack the hip, most likely that would give you a slow response, with plenty of time to step around, but this one is more of a gamble because some people are better at close movements than redirects to forehand ( distance movement ), so you'll need to study your opponents to figure out which strategy works best. 6. Drills to practice - Falkenberg is the one that allows you to train both forehand and backhand in a continuous motion. The other is a pinning practice. Basically you stand as close to the table as you can, then you counter with BH with partner really fast for up to 2-3 shots. Then redirect to partner's forehand, he counters, and you attack that ball. Its not an easy drill but it will make you faster and better. Once you can counter close, you can train to take a step back on parntner's FH opening and power loop the ball with your FH. Hope this helps. Carry on. Leshxa makes some good points but there is one thing that stands out that i don't agree with. In reference to number 5 - going to the forehand isn't always the best option, puts you in a lot more danger.  You're better off making an "effort ball" (10% faster shot into their elbow) and be prepared to step for your forehand if it comes in range of your forehand, generally it will come to roughly the middle of the table which is the idea point in which to hit your forehand from. It's less risky but also more effective, imho.

I'm not disagreeing, Fruitloop, You're right on. At the beginning stages, however, I would urge the player to use that tactic. Here is why.

Catching the elbow sounds easy, but it isn't. The elbow is a moving target. At lower levels, the players don't move their feet on the BH side, so you can catch them easier. On the higher levels, the elbow can become a dangerous side spin forehand very easily, no matter how much speed you have in your backhand, because those players learn to develop a quick step back and pivot with forehand, just like Gatien.

Plus, such tactic builds confidence and works on backhand placement - which I believe is one of the most difficult shots - due to the timing required to contact the ball.

Also, going directly into someone's forehand, your footwork will get a lot better since you'll have to respond to a strong shot and not a weak shot that will be made by the opponent if jammed. During the game your tactic to the elbow is probably a better one, during practice, it won't force you to use the footwork in the way you'll need to apply it in the game.

Anton Chigurh wrote: Leshxa: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Not only did you say the words I wanted to hear, but you were very thorough and thoughtful. Excellent advice. It encouraged me while also giving me something to work on. I'm assuming you're a coach, and if not, you should be!  I'm sure I will come back to your post many times and reread it. Vassily: Although it's not yet where I want it to be, my power is getting better with my backhand. However, I hesitate to focus too much on an "offensive" backhand like Kreanga's, simply because I have a pretty large forehand. I went to a Stellan Bengtsson seminar over the summer. Although he made me aware of many areas in which I need to improve, he also gave me a huge compliment. About my forehand, he said, "The best in the world don't hit much harder." (I hope that doesn't appear like I'm "bragging", but it's relevant to the story .) When I told him I wanted to work on a powerful backhand too, he said that's good but not to focus too much on it. Here's why: To paraphrase, he said that having a big, powerful forehand and a big, powerful backhand as your two primary tools can be a drawback because in order to use them both you need more distance from the table. In creating that distance, you give up control of the table, which is not always ideal. He said that a smaller (but effective) backhand is better for connection balls, until you can work your forehand into the rally. And that was my concern: In trying to establish an effective, consistent backhand, I've started to become too dependent on it and have therefore started to ignore my main weapon--my forehand. But I think Leshxa has straightened me out. But still, I agree: A big, nasty backhand "Kreanga" shot is satisfying! To everyone else: Thanks for your time and suggestions!

No, Anton I am not a coach! But I'm glad I was able to help.

Regarding your response to Vassily, don't rush your practice. Once you're stable and more confident in your strokes, and the longer you keep using them, you'll see that driving power into the ball is a lot simpler than it seemed. You know "need to learn to crawl before you walk". Its always good to have "gears" in your shots. Slow, spinny, fast, flat, etc. Having just two variations ( safe shot or weak shot, and power shot ) will limit your options in the game.

you'd be surprised how much of your bh is going to be just blocks and small counters. that should be able to lead you up to 2000 (my goal) but after that point, then it gets crazy =(

Anton Chigurh wrote: To paraphrase, he said that having a big, powerful forehand and a big, powerful backhand as your two primary tools can be a drawback because in order to use them both you need more distance from the table. In creating that distance, you give up control of the table, which is not always ideal. He said that a smaller (but effective) backhand is better for connection balls, until you can work your forehand into the rally. And that was my concern: In trying to establish an effective, consistent backhand, I've started to become too dependent on it and have therefore started to ignore my main weapon--my forehand. But I think Leshxa has straightened me out. But still, I agree: A big, nasty backhand "Kreanga" shot is satisfying!

friendship wrote: Anton Chigurh wrote: To paraphrase, he said that having a big, powerful forehand and a big, powerful backhand as your two primary tools can be a drawback because in order to use them both you need more distance from the table. In creating that distance, you give up control of the table, which is not always ideal. He said that a smaller (but effective) backhand is better for connection balls, until you can work your forehand into the rally. And that was my concern: In trying to establish an effective, consistent backhand, I've started to become too dependent on it and have therefore started to ignore my main weapon--my forehand. But I think Leshxa has straightened me out. But still, I agree: A big, nasty backhand "Kreanga" shot is satisfying!   it would be nice to have big backhand and not to use it always, but to use it in rare occasions which call big BH to be used. I have a vision of FH oriented game with smaller BH for preparing FH attacks, but also with big BH deployed when needed, as a tactical weapon in specific situation. to conclude my thought: it's certainly not bad to have big BH. it might be only wrong to overuse it   and it seems to me that is the way newer top-class chinese players play. they have big BH's but they use them sparingly, while still relying on BH to prepare FH attack at first place. they are in nice synchro with stellan's words

For what it's worth, I absolutely agree with all of the above.

I totally agree with dragon kid.
I think you need to have a clear FH dominant game plan:

1. STAY FH-dominant WHEN SERVING - when you serve, you can attack almost every longer push return with your forehand. There is absolutely no need to change this winning pattern. When serving, stay forehand dominant and use the backhand only as a complimentary shot.

2. When receiving, you can not be as FH dominant as when serving so you will naturally play more backhands, use FH in the FH half of the table, BH in the BH half, run round once in a while as not to be too predictable.

3. DO NOT LEAVE THE TABLE TO YOUR OPPONENT - you do not want to play several BH-Topspins in a row, you would do more mistakes then points in this way, you want to make an opening BH topspin , a quick BH block/counter as a 2nd/3rd shot if necessary and attack a weak response with your FH. 

4. You need a rubber on your BH side which allows you to control the game. You do not want a catapult monster and it should not be too soft because of the block/counter game. I use CJ8000 Extreme Speed and it is great - I can play the touch shots - receiving short and pushing, it helps me to block/counter opponents spins and also allows me a topspin play.