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What else is needed to beat the Chinese?

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Thylacine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thylacine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 4:54am

Japan is nowhere near to being a threat for the Chinese dominance. Yeah, hopes are high that some of the younger japanese players can win a medal. I don't believe it though - neither Mizutani, nor Kenta  could beat the best chinese players.  Some people say Germany?! Come on do you think that Ovtcharov or Suss could win a medal from Olympic Games or World Championships? Boll already proved he can't. We'll see in the next 3-4 years. Till then the Korean hanbang forehand is the only trustworthy and tested weapon of chinese destruction and it's not only Ryu as someone said. RSM hasn't won about 20 medals at WC and OG. LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrilix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 5:10am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

They have a population of 1.5 billion or whatever it is to draw on. When you have a quarter of the earth's population, you have a quarter of their athletes.


You couldn't be more misinformed. You think Chinese kids have as much opportunity as kids here, when it comes to education and extra-curricular activities? FAR FROM IT.

I was born in China, by the way. I know. Back in my parents day, things were a lot different. Schooling was tough, as it is now (especially stressful as you take the national exams after highschool), and universities were very socialized, with shared rooms for many many people, and sort of a "everyone come around to dinner in the cafeteria" type of socialized experience. Things have come a long way, and there are more freedoms in many aspects of everyday life, however, all it takes is visiting China and not just for the tourist traps to see that the landscape is far from being as prosperous as it is here. The middle-class (actually a misnomer, since they're more like upper class) are becoming a more and more significant part of the population, and it's really these guys that have the best opportunities when it comes to extra-curricular activities.

Also, look at the United States. They have very sophisticated sports programs, and people that live in the United States are relatively, far wealthier with more opportunity. That is why they can produce so many good athletes, given that their population is 1/4 that of China.

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They seem to be willing to route their kids and specialize them earlier in life.  As I understand it, they are willing to pull kids into camps at like age 6 and this becomes their job.  Discipline is probably absolute. This is not something we seem to want to do in the west.  Not saying it's good or bad.  But I wonder what becomes of the majority of players who DON'T make it to the top of the system.  Have they been taught to read and write adequately?  Or do they get like a military retirement like stipend and then they are forced to work yucky jobs if they can't make it as a TT coach or whatever?  This is not just TT.  Look at the world's reaction to the female olympic gymnasts and their ages.


Do you have any actual evidence of wrongdoing? Even any anecdotal stories to tell where x person was sent to y camp for intense training, hated the sport / didn't perform well, and came back home for a spanking? There most certainly exist these types, and more likely the more skilled and promising you are, but how you manage to classify this as a Chinese tendency is astounding.
 
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I don't claim to be an expert in China.  Don't speak it.  Never been there.  If my impressions are incorrect, feel free to tell me.  This is just my musings as I percieve the situation.


Alright, look. Here's the deal. I hate it when people who think they know China start talking about it like everywhere it's boot camp. It's not. Other than that, anything goes. If you have an opinion, that's great.

Some of the things I believe help them dominate in table tennis are:
- more regulated national training (You must perform, and in doing so, do a service for the country that gives you these opportunities.)
- much more internal competition (You don't want to work for that medal? Do you know that someone else would like to take your place?)
- a strong table tennis background and culture

I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that a significant number of people that don't make it to the top, either continue to strive for the top, or help others closer to the top in achieving their goals. You don't often see people below those levels for many reasons (one being that China likes to promote their best image -- Chinese people are like that -- and the other being that there is simply not enough room on the team to give each and everyone an exquisite international experience).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fortran2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 5:24am
I am a Chinese and I really think Boll,Maze and Ovtcharov are as good as Ma lin ,Wang Liqin and Ma long, at lease in world cup.

Chinese players are a little more stable or better when facing "dark horse" or unfamiliar players, this is a very important reason of their having got more medals in Olympic and the World Tournament.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 5:26am
Originally posted by ppmax ppmax wrote:

Strategically position a few hot girls with generous cleavage.


This plan has a flaw..
In order for it to work, you need gay players to play against the Chinese.. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 5:29am
Take the ball early and drive it into the corners deep deep deep every time, and force the Chinese player on the defensive. Either that or hit it as hard as you can and hope it goes in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 5:41am
Originally posted by Cyrilix Cyrilix wrote:


- a strong table tennis background and culture


 
 Next time, why don't you save yourself time and just write the bit that matters?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imzadim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 5:44am
European style is just as effective as Chinese style.

Changing the way they play wouldn't help *at all*. In fact each style fits player's bodies better. E.g: close to the table, faster arm movement and quick reaction fits the asian physic. Slower acceleration, more body power and larger body size fits the European style.

Why Chinese capitalize on the sport? Because there are many of them and not anywhere in the world TT is as popular as in China.

Think it this way. If Chinese played the European way and European played the Chinese way, China would still be kicking everybody's asses.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fortran2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 5:44am
As I know, some Chinese parent send their kids to camp , after several mouths , coachs may give suggestiones to very few of them to continue trainning, those parents and kids will accept or not.
as to other kids, just give up their dreams to be a world champ, then pingpang is only a kind of entertainment.
Chinese parents are not fools, they know How hard to become a Malin or WLQ for their boy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 8:14am
Originally posted by fortran2003 fortran2003 wrote:

As I know, some Chinese parent send their kids to camp , after several mouths , coachs may give suggestiones to very few of them to continue trainning, those parents and kids will accept or not.
as to other kids, just give up their dreams to be a world champ, then pingpang is only a kind of entertainment.
Chinese parents are not fools, they know How hard to become a Malin or WLQ for their boy.



True, but becoming great is a ticket to good life, however hard the road may be. I mean look at most NBA players. Most have incredible stories to tell in how they got where they did. Same for baseball, football, etc. For a lot of athletes, sports were a ticket out from their otherwise failed lives.

One of the reasons parents would choose to close their eyes on hard work, especially if the kid displays great talent.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 8:15am
Originally posted by Imzadim Imzadim wrote:

European style is just as effective as Chinese style.

Changing the way they play wouldn't help *at all*. In fact each style fits player's bodies better. E.g: close to the table, faster arm movement and quick reaction fits the asian physic. Slower acceleration, more body power and larger body size fits the European style.

Why Chinese capitalize on the sport? Because there are many of them and not anywhere in the world TT is as popular as in China.

Think it this way. If Chinese played the European way and European played the Chinese way, China would still be kicking everybody's asses.



Very good response!

This is so true. That's why you don't see a dominating Chinese football or basketball teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrilix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by Cyrilix Cyrilix wrote:


- a strong table tennis background and culture


 
 Next time, why don't you save yourself time and just write the bit that matters?


Next time, why don't you just read the parts of a post you care about and ignore the rest instead of complaining?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:

Originally posted by Imzadim Imzadim wrote:

Why Chinese capitalize on the sport? Because there are many of them and not anywhere in the world TT is as popular as in China.

Think it this way. If Chinese played the European way and European played the Chinese way, China would still be kicking everybody's asses.



Very good response!

This is so true. That's why you don't see a dominating Chinese football or basketball teams.


This is flaw. Norway, Sweden, Denmark - can beat Chinese in Football, yet maybe more Chinese people plays football than the entire population of those countries put together.
The tradition argument is better.
And let's not forget that Sweden once dominate the sport, and how many people exactly play TT in Sweden?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:

Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:

Originally posted by Imzadim Imzadim wrote:

Why Chinese capitalize on the sport? Because there are many of them and not anywhere in the world TT is as popular as in China.

Think it this way. If Chinese played the European way and European played the Chinese way, China would still be kicking everybody's asses.



Very good response!

This is so true. That's why you don't see a dominating Chinese football or basketball teams.


This is flaw. Norway, Sweden, Denmark - can beat Chinese in Football, yet maybe more Chinese people plays football than the entire population of those countries put together.
The tradition argument is better.
And let's not forget that Sweden once dominate the sport, and how many people exactly play TT in Sweden?



football? I don't think so. I'm from US. Football for us is AMERICAN FOOTBALL! Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote melarimsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 1:20pm
Alright, let's call it SOCCER 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imzadim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:


Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:


Originally posted by Imzadim Imzadim wrote:

Why Chinese capitalize on the sport? Because there are many of them and not anywhere in the world TT is as popular as in China.

Think it this way. If Chinese played the European way and European played the Chinese way, China would still be kicking everybody's asses.

Very good response!This is so true. That's why you don't see a dominating Chinese football or basketball teams.
This is flaw. Norway, Sweden, Denmark - can beat Chinese in Football, yet maybe more Chinese people plays football than the entire population of those countries put together.The tradition argument is better.And let's not forget that Sweden once dominate the sport, and how many people exactly play TT in Sweden?

True, it's about numbers *and* tradition. I definitively simplified my answer too much, but tradition is part of why I mentioned popularity.
Lots of Chinese play football, but their love for the sport is not even close to the Europeans. Football is just part of the society in some countries.

On the other hand you need the numbers. You need enough players to get a world class roster. Countries in south America, like Venezuela, breath and live football, but there are not enough players to form a good team.

Waldner actually supports my point. How many Wanders are there? Not enough. He has always been the exception, not the rule.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkillashark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 4:22pm
LOL My Korean 한방 "hanbang" forehand was sort of sarcastic but it's been used effectively before to beat the Chinese.

It worked extremely well for Yoo Nam Kyu and Ryu Seung Min (they actually have the same surname 유) for their respecitive Olympic golds but without speed glue, their hanbang forehands are getting easier to defend.

I think in order to beat China, you have to do what the Chinese do and excel at it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by Imzadim Imzadim wrote:



Waldner actually supports my point. How many Wanders are there? Not enough. He has always been the exception, not the rule.





 Nice stuff.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2009 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:

football? I don't think so. I'm from US. Football for us is AMERICAN FOOTBALL! Ouch

Originally posted by melarimsa melarimsa wrote:

Alright, let's call it SOCCER 


Your American Football should have been called American Rugby.. Wink
Your American Football does not even use foot unless there is a kick to the that dodgy looking goalposts where there aren't any goalkeepers.. it's not football, it's rugby with a costume.. LOL
If the sport does not mainly use your FOOT, it is not FOOTball.. LOL

There's no way I am going to call our Football - Soccer Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2009 at 3:49am

 

 
   dont know why you talk about yoshida when he barely was a provincial player and why china should have done something about yoshida? 
 
 chen weixing was in  the chinese team and nobody is talking about him neither tan ruiwu or any ex chinese team player, kai is like the underdog he would have never born in china, lets talk about player that at least were in the chinese team..if lixiao wants to talk about players in japan xie chaojie has a better resume light years ahead yoshida
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrilix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2009 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

 

 
   dont know why you talk about yoshida when he barely was a provincial player and why china should have done something about yoshida? 
 
 chen weixing was in  the chinese team and nobody is talking about him neither tan ruiwu or any ex chinese team player, kai is like the underdog he would have never born in china, lets talk about player that at least were in the chinese team..if lixiao wants to talk about players in japan xie chaojie has a better resume light years ahead yoshida


Looking at Chen Weixing, I'm not sure if he would've been able to survive a longer stay in the Chinese team. He looks a little too undisciplined and wacky, though that's not to say that he just let loose when heading over to Austria.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2009 at 10:24am
no no no! the best way to defeat the chinese is to speed glue your body!!!

joking aside, we should have the training system and have a huge table tennis pool of players trained for future generations
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2009 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

no no no! the best way to defeat the chinese is to speed glue your body!!!

joking aside, we should have the training system and have a huge table tennis pool of players trained for future generations
 
LOLLOLLOL
 
 
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