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Red vs Black Tenergy05

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    Posted: 05/15/2020 at 6:38pm
Hi all,

Has anyone else also noticed a difference between the red and black Tenergy05? My observation is as follows:

BLACK topsheet is softer, tackier, spinnier, grip longer lasting, but slower and less bouncy

RED topsheet is harder, shinier, less spinny, grip not as long lasting, but faster and bouncier

Most pro players use a red rubber on their BH - my theory is that the bounciness and speed help the naturally shorter BH swing - with FH more of the body/arm is used and thus a slower black rubber will help spin and accuracy (which is consistent with Chinese pro players using black rubbers on their FH).


What are you observations and thoughts?


Edited by Rollko - 05/15/2020 at 6:40pm
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idk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2020 at 7:10pm
you have made a number of posts obsessing over very minor details about equipment. If there are any theoretical differences it’s not going to matter for anyone here, and you are way overthinking this one 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2020 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by Rollko Rollko wrote:

Hi all,

Has anyone else also noticed a difference between the red and black Tenergy05? My observation is as follows:

BLACK topsheet is softer, tackier, spinnier, grip longer lasting, but slower and less bouncy

RED topsheet is harder, shinier, less spinny, grip not as long lasting, but faster and bouncier

Most pro players use a red rubber on their BH - my theory is that the bounciness and speed help the naturally shorter BH swing - with FH more of the body/arm is used and thus a slower black rubber will help spin and accuracy (which is consistent with Chinese pro players using black rubbers on their FH).


What are you observations and thoughts?

I have found that with butterfly SP red is better than black. I have used like 7 flarestorm II  red  sheets al.of them better than black F2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bokai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2020 at 8:41pm
The colours of rubbers is such a minor difference that it comes down to mental thoughts IMO. I must admit, I use red SP rather than black cos I feel 'mentally' better about it knowing that there could be a possible difference between the colours. Tho I use black for FH so i can pretend to be Kong ling Hui (my favourite player of all time) :D :D.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2020 at 9:19pm
I have noticed differences between red and black Tenergies 05 Hard.
However I´m sure the reason was the blades where they were glued on. Mine was black and I used in a ALC blade while my friend´s was red and he uses a Jpen Hinoki single ply blade.
Mine was softer, spinnier and seems to last longer than his. On the other hand his red T05H was faster and harder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2020 at 9:29pm
There is no realistic difference.

The difference between black and red Chinese rubbers is small. The difference between red and black rubbers made outside of China is practically non-existent.

Also, the statement "most pro players use red on the backhand", probably isn't true for players outside of China.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rollko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2020 at 9:32pm
that's what i thought as well, i thought it was because of the blade, but timo boll spirit and tb alc are not that much different (i had a red tenergy on tbs and black on tb alc). also a simple tackiness test (lifiting the ball off the table) shows that the black one is actually quite tacky, but the red one not tacky at all

could the tbs+red tenergy be so much faster and bouncier than tb alc+black because of the blade itself? both blades are 93g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2020 at 10:06pm
First of all both sheets should be glued on the same blade to test it.

But even beyond that, the 2 sheets are likely to have more variation between them because different batches of rubber have variation between them. Butterfly doesn't have perfect quality control. Some rubbers are just going to have some differences because of what happened during production. Not because of what color it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 2:11am
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

There is no realistic difference.

The difference between black and red Chinese rubbers is small. The difference between red and black rubbers made outside of China is practically non-existent.

Also, the statement "most pro players use red on the backhand", probably isn't true for players outside of China.

the only red chinese rubber I found similar to black is 889-2...I have used many japanese pips I find nittaku moristo same feel but black tend to last more...beautry all feel the same...waran also better in red.
I feel that red is crispier just my opinion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timoboll89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 3:52am
the difference is the weight when uncut. 

Also sometimes u might get a “defective” rubber ( this is the case with esn more than japanese rubbers) that plays very bad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 4:38am
There is a noticeable difference between red and black in some of the older gen esn rubbers like aurus, rakza, genius, hexer etc, red top sheet feeling a tad bit harder and the black one feeling a tad bit softer and hence slightly grabbier. However, i don't think there's a big enough difference in the recent esn rubbers( mx-p onwards) and the tenergy line for most people to notice.

In my opinion, these rubber do have the same difference, but its soo minute that I won't really notice much if you made me do a blind test, so yeah might even be a placebo effect since my mind has a way of perceiving how red and black rubbers.

In hurricane and many tacky Chinese rubbers, the variation between red and black is definitely high. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 6:40am
Hi,

so yeah might even be a placebo effect since my mind has a way of perceiving how red and black rubbers.

Yes, it may be the placebo effect, however my sense has always been that the nocebo effect holds a more prominent influence. 

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longrange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 7:03am
The answer is in chemistry. There is a significant difference in how one produces black and coloured rubber. Hint: why are tires black?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 7:29am
Originally posted by longrange longrange wrote:

The answer is in chemistry. There is a significant difference in how one produces black and coloured rubber. Hint: why are tires black?
Not really...except for the pigment that is added.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 7:39am
I think it is just placebo. But I usually use black 05 for FH because i think (or want to think) that it is spinier LOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 11:38am
Over ten years I never really felt a consistent difference.  My glue job was more important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 12:00pm
As has already been stated, there tends to be a major difference in Chinese rubbers, with very little exception.  It was also true back in the early days of red/black, as people struggled to find a red they liked.

I can't speak to the modern rubbers.  I never try the expensive stuff anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by longrange longrange wrote:

The answer is in chemistry. There is a significant difference in how one produces black and coloured rubber. Hint: why are tires black?

Because it goes with everything?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by longrange longrange wrote:

The answer is in chemistry. There is a significant difference in how one produces black and coloured rubber. Hint: why are tires black?

tires are black because carbon powder is used to make the rubbers more resilient
I wonder how much H3 red sheets are bought ,I tried nittaku hurricane pro red and it feels duller than the black version and its more tacky even my nittaku dealer agree with that



Edited by mykonos96 - 05/16/2020 at 8:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longrange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 9:25pm
> tires are black because carbon powder is used to make the rubbers more resilient

Yes, black rubbers use carbon as a filler for reinforcement and colour is just a side-effect. Coloured rubbers use different fillers (you still need to reinforce them) and dyes hence difference in properties. The difference is noticeable although minuscule. More surprising to me was that my coach, who doesn't normally give a damn about equipment once started such discussion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2020 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by longrange longrange wrote:

> tires are black because carbon powder is used to make the rubbers more resilient

Yes, black rubbers use carbon as a filler for reinforcement and colour is just a side-effect. Coloured rubbers use different fillers (you still need to reinforce them) and dyes hence difference in properties. The difference is noticeable although minuscule. More surprising to me was that my coach, who doesn't normally give a damn about equipment once started such discussion.

what I dont know if color sponge affects the sponge properties,H3 blue sponge, orange


Edited by mykonos96 - 05/16/2020 at 10:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jobaumi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2020 at 6:01am
Butterfly black topsheet is always softer than red topsheet.
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