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Swing plane > racket angle

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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Swing plane > racket angle
    Posted: 06/24/2020 at 8:19am
As I improved, I realised that it's way better to think about swing planes which i read a lot from NextLevel here... For eg, if a loop goes into the net, you just adjust the swing plane to more of a down to up orientation. This helps significantly in terms of consistency because you pretty much have the same stroke for all balls. If you think racket angle, it's very easy to be inconsistent because there's a different configuration of your arm for each different incoming ball... For eg if you swing too flat with insufficient upward trajectory while looping underspin, you'll end up with the ball in the net. If you open the racket angle up to solve the problem while still maintaining that flat swing plane trajectory, the problem now is that you produce insufficient spin and the ball just becomes uncontrolled and you have tons of mistakes. But if you think oh my swing plane should be more upwards, you'll naturally go lower in preparation which also opens your racket angle naturally while maintaining the same spin production which allows you to land those juicy opening loops. This also helps you avoid the trap of overreliance on the arm in looping. It's just an excellent concept which I thought should be taught more compared to the racket angle concept, especially for looping. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2020 at 10:16am
Thanks for the hat tip, Blahness.  I do make a slight accommodation for racket angle, but I don't call it racket angle because I think that is fairly confusing.  I talk about where you intend to hit on the ball, which may not be where you actually hit, but that influences your racket angle as well as the stroke trajectory/swing plane.

So usually it is

1) where the racket starts
2) where you intend to hit on the ball
3) where the racket ends

For most players, racket angle changes in a narrow range but by knowing where on the ball you intend to hit, your racket angle might be modified slightly to control the incoming spin as you prefer.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2020 at 11:57pm
Yeah. I think in the most basic form, most online tutorials talk about start and finish positions for the racket. That in between becomes the swing plane and the racket angle also adjusts accordingly. I think timing can also affect the number two NL mentioned, where you intend to hit the ball.

Racket angle by itself is definitely confusing and can lead to people changing their arm position and even adjusting the angle more throughout the stroke. I think purely thinking about racket angle without the rest will result in more arm only swings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2020 at 12:04am
Are you talking about a different end position of your backswing or convex/concave motion?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2020 at 8:23am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Thanks for the hat tip, Blahness.  I do make a slight accommodation for racket angle, but I don't call it racket angle because I think that is fairly confusing.  I talk about where you intend to hit on the ball, which may not be where you actually hit, but that influences your racket angle as well as the stroke trajectory/swing plane.

So usually it is

1) where the racket starts
2) where you intend to hit on the ball
3) where the racket ends

For most players, racket angle changes in a narrow range but by knowing where on the ball you intend to hit, your racket angle might be modified slightly to control the incoming spin as you prefer.


I think that the overriding command to oneself is the intended location(placement)/speed/spin for the ball. The rest as detailed will follow naturally, after long hours of practice of courseSmile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2020 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Yeah. I think in the most basic form, most online tutorials talk about start and finish positions for the racket. That in between becomes the swing plane and the racket angle also adjusts accordingly. I think timing can also affect the number two NL mentioned, where you intend to hit the ball.

Racket angle by itself is definitely confusing and can lead to people changing their arm position and even adjusting the angle more throughout the stroke. I think purely thinking about racket angle without the rest will result in more arm only swings.

Yes. Swing plane is just a more elegant way of describing this. The tutorials which talk about start and finish position is a bit incomplete, because you can't have the same start/finish position for each incoming ball, it needs to be adjusted, and I believe the more elegant way of thinking about it is simply adjusting the swing plane to suit the incoming ball. 


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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2020 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Are you talking about a different end position of your backswing or convex/concave motion?

No, nothing to do with both of these!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 1:34am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Yes. Swing plane is just a more elegant way of describing this. The tutorials which talk about start and finish position is a bit incomplete, because you can't have the same start/finish position for each incoming ball, it needs to be adjusted, and I believe the more elegant way of thinking about it is simply adjusting the swing plane to suit the incoming ball. 

I agree! I think it's like looking at it from a beginners viewpoint and someone who is more advanced. I like the swing plane term and I think for people who have a certain level of understanding, it helps. But if you use it for beginners, it would probably be more confusing. My students would definitely be confused if I tried to explain it via swing planes instead of just start and finish positions (they are kids, though). 
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