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8 Common Mistakes in FH Loop

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 3:36am
Yea Timo is an amazing player, but we don't admire him for his looping prowess. I agree that we all have different starting points, and rubber can make a difference while learning. But once you make the decision to change your habits, the rubber is just a tool. I can crunch the ball with tenergy or hurricane because I've developed that type of acceleration. 

Ideally we all want more skills, and it can be beneficial to experiment with different types of loops. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 3:52am
Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

Yea Timo is an amazing player, but we don't admire him for his looping prowess. I agree that we all have different starting points, and rubber can make a difference while learning. But once you make the decision to change your habits, the rubber is just a tool. I can crunch the ball with tenergy or hurricane because I've developed that type of acceleration. 

Ideally we all want more skills, and it can be beneficial to experiment with different types of loops. 

Yep agreed, once you've got the skills you can hit hard using whatever blade/rubber combo....

Btw I would love to hear your insights about reading the hook serve - you seem to be able to receive it well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 3:58am
Reading that serve was easier for me, because I can do the same serve. It's easier to see how the spin is generated if you know what to look for in the paddle.

With that said, it can still be hard to see the contact on the paddle. Instead, it's more reliable to watch the behavior of the bounce, which is harder to disguise with heavier serves. Topspin kicks forward and underspin slows down. Sometimes I was fooled too because the bounce was even hard to read, but in general, when serves get too well disguised, the bounce is the only way to distinguish serves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 4:15am
Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

Reading that serve was easier for me, because I can do the same serve. It's easier to see how the spin is generated if you know what to look for in the paddle.

With that said, it can still be hard to see the contact on the paddle. Instead, it's more reliable to watch the behavior of the bounce, which is harder to disguise with heavier serves. Topspin kicks forward and underspin slows down. Sometimes I was fooled too because the bounce was even hard to read, but in general, when serves get too well disguised, the bounce is the only way to distinguish serves.

I too can serve the same serve and know how it works, but basically my friend and I both can't read each other's serve lol...

Do you read that just from the first bounce or you watch the kick off the second bounce or how it behaves between the first and second bounce? 

Tbh I only rely on reading bat movement but against really good hook servers the bat angle and followthrough is exactly the same, the wrist movement is different but you don't get to see the bat before ball contact and the contact is so damn fast Dead

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 4:17am
It's all three of those things. Watch the entire path of the ball, not just a portion of it, which is what I meant by "behavior" of the ball. The path will kick quickly on topspin, and it will float with backspin. I hope that helps lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 4:26am
Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

It's all three of those things. Watch the entire path of the ball, not just a portion of it, which is what I meant by "behavior" of the ball. The path will kick quickly on topspin, and it will float with backspin. I hope that helps lol

Thanks! That actually gave me a lot of good insights. I never tried to read serves via the "ball behaviour" way but maybe it's time to start xD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 4:35am
Btw for YouTube video inspiration you can check out 



I love these 2 channels but one is in Korean and the other is in Japanese. If we had something like them in English it would be sooo good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 7:19am
Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

It's all three of those things. Watch the entire path of the ball, not just a portion of it, which is what I meant by "behavior" of the ball. The path will kick quickly on topspin, and it will float with backspin. I hope that helps lol
For me is really easy.to return.such serve if it's.legal.
But most of times people just throw.the.ball to a paddle almost not throwing it to top or just hide it with hand , body or head or combo of it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 7:43am
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

It's all three of those things. Watch the entire path of the ball, not just a portion of it, which is what I meant by "behavior" of the ball. The path will kick quickly on topspin, and it will float with backspin. I hope that helps lol
For me is really easy.to return.such serve if it's.legal.
But most of times people just throw.the.ball to a paddle almost not throwing it to top or just hide it with hand , body or head or combo of it. 

The most effective way to do it, is to hide the paddle with your body until ball contact where the paddle comes out - the ball is always visible during the toss so it's legal, and you move into the ball. The opponent can only see the point of ball contact and the followthrough, not much info to work with since for both sidetop and sideunder you can use the exact same racket angle and followthrough to do it. The real difference is the racket tip direction prior to contact and you don't see that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 9:55am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

It's all three of those things. Watch the entire path of the ball, not just a portion of it, which is what I meant by "behavior" of the ball. The path will kick quickly on topspin, and it will float with backspin. I hope that helps lol
For me is really easy.to return.such serve if it's.legal.
But most of times people just throw.the.ball to a paddle almost not throwing it to top or just hide it with hand , body or head or combo of it. 

The most effective way to do it, is to hide the paddle with your body until ball contact where the paddle comes out - the ball is always visible during the toss so it's legal, and you move into the ball. The opponent can only see the point of ball contact and the followthrough, not much info to work with since for both sidetop and sideunder you can use the exact same racket angle and followthrough to do it. The real difference is the racket tip direction prior to contact and you don't see that. 
Agree hidden paddle can bit influence on my return.
But.without throwing the ball directly to the paddle, it's just a little obsticle, does not drastically change anything cause you can understand faster even before.the.first bounce to the table.
Hidening of the ball during such a throwing makes you move to improper position to be able to see what really will happen.
If you didn't move at all chances are you will just fail the return.

I am also.trying to hide my paddle on this serve and on pendulum serve  before hitting the ball but do not.hide the ball during the  flight and don't throw it to the paddle illegally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 10:27am
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

It's all three of those things. Watch the entire path of the ball, not just a portion of it, which is what I meant by "behavior" of the ball. The path will kick quickly on topspin, and it will float with backspin. I hope that helps lol
For me is really easy.to return.such serve if it's.legal.
But most of times people just throw.the.ball to a paddle almost not throwing it to top or just hide it with hand , body or head or combo of it. 

The most effective way to do it, is to hide the paddle with your body until ball contact where the paddle comes out - the ball is always visible during the toss so it's legal, and you move into the ball. The opponent can only see the point of ball contact and the followthrough, not much info to work with since for both sidetop and sideunder you can use the exact same racket angle and followthrough to do it. The real difference is the racket tip direction prior to contact and you don't see that. 
Agree hidden paddle can bit influence on my return.
But.without throwing the ball directly to the paddle, it's just a little obsticle, does not drastically change anything cause you can understand faster even before.the.first bounce to the table.
Hidening of the ball during such a throwing makes you move to improper position to be able to see what really will happen.
If you didn't move at all chances are you will just fail the return.

I am also.trying to hide my paddle on this serve and on pendulum serve  before hitting the ball but do not.hide the ball during the  flight and don't throw it to the paddle illegally.
maybe you haven't seen some of the highly optimised "hidden paddle backswing" hook serves - they look disgustingly identical lol. If you don't read it correctly, it's like playing with a 4 point handicap lol... I know coz I abuse the heck out of this serve too, it allowed me to win against very strong players whom I should have no business beating.  
Basically, you need to practice your movements in front of the mirror - all the variants should look exactly the same, the only difference being the feeling in the wrist. 

Like what bdzd said, often you can only tell via the ball behaviour, there is just no way to read it via bat movement. 


Edited by blahness - 09/27/2020 at 10:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 10:42am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

maybe you haven't seen some of the highly optimised "hidden paddle backswing" hook serves - they look disgustingly identical lol. If you don't read it correctly, it's like playing with a 4 point handicap lol... I know coz I abuse the heck out of this serve too, it allowed me to win against very strong players whom I should have no business beating.  
Basically, you need to practice your movements in front of the mirror - all the variants should look exactly the same, the only difference being the feeling in the wrist. 

Like what bdzd said, often you can only tell via the ball behaviour, there is just no way to read it via bat movement. 
Met such guys on different levels during the time I was improving my skills not so long ago as I started to train 5 years ago :) 

But if the serve from common ones like modern hook or tomahawk or pendulum - it's just ok - matter of practice how to return them if they are legal.

If something special - then yeah  - need time to adjust proper motor functioning of my mind/body.

Also - I am one of such guys :) So at least have two different kinds of service (not slightly different but totally different like for example top-sidespin and under-sidespin pendulums together with fast flat serve looking like pendulum at start.

Improving them - just by video. Mirror for me is not OK as I move during the serve so do not have time to take a look at it.

If you do not move - often times means you are just throwing the ball to paddle directly - it's pretty common violation of rules. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 10:59am
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

maybe you haven't seen some of the highly optimised "hidden paddle backswing" hook serves - they look disgustingly identical lol. If you don't read it correctly, it's like playing with a 4 point handicap lol... I know coz I abuse the heck out of this serve too, it allowed me to win against very strong players whom I should have no business beating.  
Basically, you need to practice your movements in front of the mirror - all the variants should look exactly the same, the only difference being the feeling in the wrist. 

Like what bdzd said, often you can only tell via the ball behaviour, there is just no way to read it via bat movement. 
Met such guys on different levels during the time I was improving my skills not so long ago as I started to train 5 years ago :) 

But if the serve from common ones like modern hook or tomahawk or pendulum - it's just ok - matter of practice how to return them if they are legal.

If something special - then yeah  - need time to adjust proper motor functioning of my mind/body.

Also - I am one of such guys :) So at least have two different kinds of service (not slightly different but totally different like for example top-sidespin and under-sidespin pendulums together with fast flat serve looking like pendulum at start.

Improving them - just by video. Mirror for me is not OK as I move during the serve so do not have time to take a look at it.

If you do not move - often times means you are just throwing the ball to paddle directly - it's pretty common violation of rules. 

The typical serves which rely on where the racket contacts the ball is damn easy to read, I would say those are intermediate serves. The special serves are the ones which rely on varying the direction and timing of wrist acceleration/direction, those are really hard to read especially with a fast movement - because you can make the blade angle and movement completely identical. 

What I meant was mirror for shadowing the movement. I spent a long time honing the movements in front of a mirror to make sure they look identical to my opponent. With a mirror you get the "opponent's view" in real time, and you realise that some things that are very different look the same to them due to the vantage point. It's like practising for a magic trick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 11:27am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

The typical serves which rely on where the racket contacts the ball is damn easy to read, I would say those are intermediate serves. The special serves are the ones which rely on varying the direction and timing of wrist acceleration/direction, those are really hard to read especially with a fast movement - because you can make the blade angle and movement completely identical. 

What I meant was mirror for shadowing the movement. I spent a long time honing the movements in front of a mirror to make sure they look identical to my opponent. With a mirror you get the "opponent's view" in real time, and you realise that some things that are very different look the same to them due to the vantage point. It's like practising for a magic trick.
Could you make some video on what you mean? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 3:05pm
Hey guys, if y’all enjoyed the video I would really appreciate it if you could share it with others. Either through personal friendships, TT companions not on forums, etc. I’m trying to build a base of followers to expand popularity of TT and that only works if people are passing along the videos :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

The typical serves which rely on where the racket contacts the ball is damn easy to read, I would say those are intermediate serves. The special serves are the ones which rely on varying the direction and timing of wrist acceleration/direction, those are really hard to read especially with a fast movement - because you can make the blade angle and movement completely identical. 

What I meant was mirror for shadowing the movement. I spent a long time honing the movements in front of a mirror to make sure they look identical to my opponent. With a mirror you get the "opponent's view" in real time, and you realise that some things that are very different look the same to them due to the vantage point. It's like practising for a magic trick.
Could you make some video on what you mean? 

Dude it's just shadowing in front of mirror lol, why would you need a video on that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

The typical serves which rely on where the racket contacts the ball is damn easy to read, I would say those are intermediate serves. The special serves are the ones which rely on varying the direction and timing of wrist acceleration/direction, those are really hard to read especially with a fast movement - because you can make the blade angle and movement completely identical. 

What I meant was mirror for shadowing the movement. I spent a long time honing the movements in front of a mirror to make sure they look identical to my opponent. With a mirror you get the "opponent's view" in real time, and you realise that some things that are very different look the same to them due to the vantage point. It's like practising for a magic trick.
Could you make some video on what you mean? 

Dude it's just shadowing in front of mirror lol, why would you need a video on that?
Hi blahness)))
I believe it's really funny to imagine someone making serve together with looking to the mirror at the same time ))))
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2020 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

The typical serves which rely on where the racket contacts the ball is damn easy to read, I would say those are intermediate serves. The special serves are the ones which rely on varying the direction and timing of wrist acceleration/direction, those are really hard to read especially with a fast movement - because you can make the blade angle and movement completely identical. 

What I meant was mirror for shadowing the movement. I spent a long time honing the movements in front of a mirror to make sure they look identical to my opponent. With a mirror you get the "opponent's view" in real time, and you realise that some things that are very different look the same to them due to the vantage point. It's like practising for a magic trick.
Could you make some video on what you mean? 

Dude it's just shadowing in front of mirror lol, why would you need a video on that?
Hi blahness)))
I believe it's really funny to imagine someone making serve together with looking to the mirror at the same time ))))

Lol yes it looks super OCD LOL but it works!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2020 at 11:05pm
Just updated the logo for my youtube channel if that encourages anyone to subscribe Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2020 at 12:27am
Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

Just updated the logo for my youtube channel if that encourages anyone to subscribe Wink

Would also love some topspin defense from your perspective...technique,  tactics, etc... You seem to be super good at it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2020 at 12:31am
I'll probably do a backhand counter topspin video next. Then I'll do a block/defense video next. Then I'll enter the world of underpin lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2020 at 12:44am
Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

I'll probably do a backhand counter topspin video next. Then I'll do a block/defense video next. Then I'll enter the world of underpin lol

Haha yeah, you seem to be able to completely absorb the incoming pace /spin to give out a consistent ball with good height and length which is so difficult against high quality loops. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejprinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2020 at 10:38am
Have you already introduced the PandaPong YouTube channel in the r/tabletennis reddit community? 26909 potential subscribers :-) Would you like me to do it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2020 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by ejprinz ejprinz wrote:

Have you already introduced the PandaPong YouTube channel in the r/tabletennis reddit community? 26909 potential subscribers :-) Would you like me to do it?
you are so nice! Clap




Edited by stiltt - 09/29/2020 at 3:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2020 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by ejprinz ejprinz wrote:

Have you already introduced the PandaPong YouTube channel in the r/tabletennis reddit community? 26909 potential subscribers :-) Would you like me to do it?

Already posted there as stiltt said :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2020 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

I'll probably do a backhand counter topspin video next. Then I'll do a block/defense video next. Then I'll enter the world of underpin lol

Haha yeah, you seem to be able to completely absorb the incoming pace /spin to give out a consistent ball with good height and length which is so difficult against high quality loops. 

Haha thanks, it’s kinda my whole play style ;)
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