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Dignics 05 vs. Tenergy 05

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ander999 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ander999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dignics 05 vs. Tenergy 05
    Posted: 10/18/2021 at 8:34pm
Hey everyone,

I have been using the tenergy 05 on the boll alc for quite some time now, but when I play tournaments with players much better than me, I struggle on receiving serves as tenergy 05 is very bouncy and spin sensitive. I try to put quality on the ball or make the placement uncomfortable but very often the ball pings off too quickly and gives the opponent an easy ball. I am wondering if dignics 05 can somehow combat that problem as it is slightly grippier and slower than tenergy 05. I also don't really want to get something much slower or less spinnier because I am a very offensive player and enjoy looping with tenergy. Any thoughts on the dignics 05?
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kindof99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2021 at 9:45pm
Dignics 09c is much better for serving and receive than D05 IMO. 

Tacky or hybrid rubbers definitely help fpr better serving and receive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ander999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2021 at 9:47pm
Thanks for the reply. But I’m so used to having the ball dig into the rubber.  I’m not sure I will enjoy 09C and it’s hardness. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ander999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2021 at 9:50pm
Thanks for the reply. But I’m so used to having the ball dig into the rubber.  I’m not sure I will enjoy 09C and it’s hardness. 

At the moment I am trying the Gewo nexus xt pro 50 (which is 50 deg and tacky). It is a much different experience from what I am used to but I agree 100% with what you are saying. On that note my offense has suffered as I can’t get used to the hardness and the tackiness. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2021 at 9:59pm
D09c is very easy to play with. It just feels like a regular ESN rubber. But the serve and control is much better than regular ESN rubbers.

You don't need Hurricane 3 experience to enjoy D09c. Actually, D09C is probably a good rubber for someone to learn to adapt from ESN to H3.

Not sure whether Gewo pro 50 behaves similar to D09C. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2021 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by ander999 ander999 wrote:

Thanks for the reply. But I’m so used to having the ball dig into the rubber.  I’m not sure I will enjoy 09C and it’s hardness. 

At the moment I am trying the Gewo nexus xt pro 50 (which is 50 deg and tacky). It is a much different experience from what I am used to but I agree 100% with what you are saying. On that note my offense has suffered as I can’t get used to the hardness and the tackiness. 

Are you sure that Gewo nexus xt pro 50 is tacky?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ander999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2021 at 10:01pm
Hmm. Maybe I should give it a chance but it is almost $100 😭. I was taught to play the European way of using my wrist, which is why I enjoy springy (catapulty) rubbers. But I guess I won’t know for sure until I try. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ander999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2021 at 10:02pm
maybe not as tacky as 09C or hurricane, but definitely tackier then tenergy or the other dignics. I am unable to use my wrist with it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2021 at 10:10pm
I checked it on ttdb and the tackiness of Gewo nexus xt pro 50 hard is rated at 1 by reviews, which is far from being tacky. One will need a rating of 5 or 6 over to be considered tacky.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2021 at 12:48am
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

I checked it on ttdb and the tackiness of Gewo nexus xt pro 50 hard is rated at 1 by reviews, which is far from being tacky. One will need a rating of 5 or 6 over to be considered tacky.

That's assuming the reviewer knows what 'tacky' means, because MANY people mix up 'tacky' with 'grippy'.

To answer your initial question, I don't think changing to D05 will help much. You either need more practice against these types players, or use a rubber that's much less sensitive to spin (which in turn will likely be less spinny for your loops as well).


Edited by haggisv - 10/19/2021 at 12:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2021 at 7:58am
Hi,

That's assuming the reviewer knows what 'tacky' means, because MANY people mix up 'tacky' with 'grippy'.

No one is less impressed with the terminology and its usage in table tennis than I.  Marshall McLuhan stated that when clear communication occurs among people it is a miracle.  The main reason I, in general, avoid any detailed discussions on technical matters in table tennis is because the sport has such a diverse usage of terms with such nebulous definitions being used by so many that meaningful and accurate dialogue is not possible.

As to "tacky" versus "grippy:"  I don't know all the methods reviewers use to determine which category a rubber belongs in.  Some don't use the categories, but instead have a numbered scale - say, 1 to 10 - and test the rubber to determine its "tacky/grippy" score on the scale.  Some qualify the two categories by adjectives; very tacky, somewhat grippy, etc.  Although the spirit of the efforts is admirable, the overall state of this equipment dimension evaluation is quite a mess.

For the common, low technology souls, the best method seems to be to place a ball on the table, press the mounted rubber on the racket firmly on the ball, then lift the racket to observe the amount of tack of the rubber, determined by whether the rubber lifts the ball off the table or not and, if so, how long it holds the ball prior to falling.  Crude, for sure, but it does give a reference point that can be used to compare the tack of different rubbers.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vlad0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2021 at 9:06am
D05 is slower than T05 ? Did you try it ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2021 at 10:26am
Tacky is grippy, but grippy might not be tacky。。。。
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mon22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2021 at 2:01pm
correct me if I’m wrong but

If you like to “catapult” the ball - tenergy 05
If you like to “hit” through the ball - Dignics 05
Longer dwell similar style to Dignics 05 - 09c 

These were my experiences in the BH only 


Edited by mon22 - 10/19/2021 at 2:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Creek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2021 at 6:22pm
d05 near table, t05 a litte off table. 

D05 has shorter but higher curve and is fast only with force. T05 a little lower, longer and more catapult. 

Even though d05 might seem a little slower, it is not easier to play, since the top sheet is grippier and more sensitive to incoming spin 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2021 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

Tacky is grippy, but grippy might not be tacky。。。。

Ouch!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnonPingPong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2021 at 6:25pm
Thank you for making clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2021 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

Tacky is grippy, but grippy might not be tacky。。。。

Can you please explain how a top-sheet can be grippy without being tacky ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Creek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2021 at 8:16pm
a car tyre is not tacky, but gives you grip on the road. If it would be tacky you would also have grip…

So: tacky = grippy, but grippy does not need to be tacky…
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2021 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by Creek Creek wrote:

a car tyre is not tacky, but gives you grip on the road. If it would be tacky you would also have grip…

So: tacky = grippy, but grippy does not need to be tacky…

Whew!  Thank goodness that's now crystal clear.

I am saddened that "sticky" is not part of this discussion as it's a common term in use.  Some players love sticky rubbers; they have told me so and I believe them.  I have told them they should consider tacky instead because of its grippiness but some people just won't listen to those of more lucid thought, precise expression, and supple mind.  I just shrug and say its their loss.

I wonder where "that purple stuff" (a recent quote from an eminent table tennis person of high recognition status who will go unnamed) sits within the terminology.  Not a cent of my money is going for that rubber until I know the correct term that applies.  I have standards! 

I feel better now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2021 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by Creek Creek wrote:

a car tyre is not tacky, but gives you grip on the road. 

I don't want to pretend to know the exact mechanism  how a good tire grips teh road vs how a bald tire does not. However I feel that the mechanism of how a tire grips road is not same a how a top-sheet grips the ball. If I am wrong, please explain


Originally posted by Creek Creek wrote:

 grippy does not need to be tacky…

This is what I still don't understand. I am not buying the car tire analogy since neither the mechanism of a tire grips the road not how top-sheet grips the ball has been explained

My position therefore is that ALL non-tacky top-sheets are less grippier than tacky top-sheets and the imaginary marketing gimmick grippiness only comes from softer sponge and or boosted / reglued sponge.  I therefore always preferred Super-Sriver to Sriver  & Mark V to Sriver till tacky top-sheet rubbers came along. Sine I do not boost or reglue like most Japanese & Euro rubbers do, I prefer to get my spin from Chinese top-sheet with soft sponge with additional benefit of being dirt cheap. Yes the quality of Japanese or Euro rubbers is much higher but I am a perennial 1100 rated professional hacker and not even an intermediate let alone an advanced player to blow my money for marketing expense and for free rubbers for pro players.  I am not knocking anyone who wan to live their fantasies of being MaLong &  buying $100 rubbers, but hey that is me.




      


Edited by denym - 10/28/2021 at 10:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2021 at 11:23pm
Thought I would give my take on some common rubber terminology.  It does involve English slang terminology so I do apologize if some of it makes little sense to non-native English speakers or to native English speakers who speak correct English.

Tensor rubbers:
A Tensor is an an algebraic object that describes a multilinear relationship between sets of algebraic objects related to a vector space (according to Wikipedia).

Therefore Tensor rubbers are suited for those players who know more about the physics of hitting a shot than they do about actually being able to execute the shot.

Tacky rubbers:
Tacky refers to something that is dowdy, shabby, or neglected in appearance; unkempt or
In poor taste; appearing cheap; gaudy

Therefore these rubbers are best suited for players who come to play dressed in old T-shirts with stretched necks, cargo or bermuda shorts, and black dress socks.

Note: Players rated under 2300 who come to play in complete National Team outfitting may also be suited for these rubbers.

Grippy rubbers:
To gripe is to complain. So I assume grippy is the adjective form and thus these rubbers are suited for those players who only lose because of slippery floors, bad lighting, bad tables, and lucky net/edges.  

They might also be useful for admirers of Ronald Reagan who are always going out to " win one for the gripper"

Note: My dyslexia may be influencing my characterization of this type rubber.

Mechanical grip rubbers:
These rubbers are suited for players who use an akward, halting stroke technique completely lacking any fluidity ie like an mechanical robot.

Hard rubbers:
These rubbers are for players who never want to do something the easy way and try to make the most difficult shots possibly.  

Soft rubbers:
These rubbers are for players who give up early in games or matches when they get behind and never seem to win once a game goes to duece.

Junk rubber:
These rubbers are best suited for older players whose former playing skills are now lying on the scrap heap of time and need something different to stay competitive.

Sticky rubbers:
These rubbers are best suited for players with less conventional games of apparrently lower skill who somehow manage to stick around in games and get to a 9-9 score. And then they somehow win just enough points to get matches to the "duece in fifth" situation where it is anyones match.

Note: I hate those guys, but wish I could be one of them. I have the unconventional game, lower skill part down already.

OX Rubbers:
These are designed for the overly friendly, touchy feelly players who do the kiss on cheek greetings and give you hugs at the end of matches. If they play it on both sides then they are truly XOXO players.

Mark - Who finds himself most suited to a hard, mechanical grip, Tensor Fh rubber and a junk Bh rubber.



Edited by mjamja - 10/28/2021 at 11:25pm
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