Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Butterfly blades - the whole truth!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Butterfly blades - the whole truth!

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Hipnotic View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/30/2019
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 477
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Butterfly blades - the whole truth!
    Posted: 01/07/2022 at 3:44am
Sorry for the clickbait, I couldn't resist 😅

** labels might be misleading, I'm talking about the second layer here, not the core**

I had this conversation so many times that I decided to write a post about it. If you look at the composition of a Butterfly blade online you will see Limba written all over the place for their second layers. That is incorrect. The truth is that Butterfly doesn’t disclose the composition of their blades, all you see online are just guesses that got passed around, and unfortunately the majority of them are incorrect. Butterfly uses Ayous in the second layer for the majority of their blades, such as Viscaria, TB line, ZJK line, Innerforce, etc… How do I know this? The difference is clear if you know what to look for, but I also saw the inside of some of these blades and proved it myself. There are brands that use Limba, such as Xiom for example, and if you compare a Viscaria with a 36.5 you will see what I mean. Ayous can look like Limba in certain situations, but Limba is unmistakably Limba. First you gotta look at the end grain, which for the second layer will be on the side of the handle. If you look at the bottom of the handle they will look the same. Also, the blade must be new or in good condition, when sweat gets into the handle it makes the grain swell and the wood darker, which hides the characteristics we are looking for. Limba is usually darker than Ayous, that’s a clue, but it may not be the case. The give away are the little diagonal lines you can see on the Ayous layer, which Limba doesn’t have. They are called medullary rays, cellular structures found in some species of wood, what we in the TT world also call the fish scale pattern.

So, is there a big difference? Not really… If we look at the average density of each wood, Limba is about 1.4x heavier than Ayous. For a normal blade this means 3-4g more. Limba is also about 1.5x harder than Ayous, this will give the blade a slightly harder touch. In the end, all else being equal, a blade with Limba instead of Ayous will feel a little harder, less bouncy, but with more speed potential.



Edited by Hipnotic - 01/07/2022 at 12:56pm
SDC Handmade Blades / www.sdcttblades.com / Insta - @sdc_tt_blades / Facebook - @SDCblades
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Magic_M View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/31/2012
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2022 at 5:29am
I can verify, that for example my Harimoto Innerforce ALC has Ayous as second layer (under the Limba outer). Please look at the structure (diagonal lines) of the Ayous core


and compare it with the structure of the second layer


You can see the same diagonal lines, a clear indication that the second layer is Ayous, although several sites list it with 2x Limba outer, for example like on this page: https://tabletennisblades.com/butterfly-blades. But Sérgio is right: Butterfly uses Ayous as second veneer in several composite blades.


Back to Top
andzejgolot View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 10/26/2018
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andzejgolot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2022 at 12:49pm
 didn't know that is true, and I put my innerforce blades on hand and he has  100% rights, so the most luxury and unique with price  ish blades were made with 3/7 proportion of the most popular, used and easy to buy wood in table tennis 

this is not unique, not worthy to talk about, I think my ZJK blue dragon was made from 100% leftovers 

so we all fall in to marketing, 
btw ayous is more expensive than limba...


Edited by andzejgolot - 01/09/2022 at 12:50pm
Zhang jike blue dragon is the worst blade!
From reactional paddles
To playin' some of the hottest TT equipment World has ever seen
From droppin' some of the hottest equipment advices TT has ever heard
Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3637
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2022 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by andzejgolot andzejgolot wrote:

 didn't know that is true, and I put my innerforce blades on hand and he has  100% rights, so the most luxury and unique with price  ish blades were made with 3/7 proportion of the most popular, used and easy to buy wood in table tennis 

this is not unique, not worthy to talk about, I think my ZJK blue dragon was made from 100% leftovers 

so we all fall in to marketing, 
btw ayous is more expensive than limba...

I have never seen a player dislike a bty blade as much as you since I have seen many times your comment about zjk blue dragon. Have you checked that it might be a fake one? There were many fake zjk blue dragon on the market a couple of years ago.
Back to Top
andzejgolot View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 10/26/2018
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andzejgolot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2022 at 8:45pm
I Had N series from 2013 year and I know a lot of M series are fake  and I played near 50-100 blades or more with construction as top ply is koto and second material is  artificial fiber:
alc/kevlar carbon/Kevlar/zlf/zlc/tamca/softcarbon/cnf
I played a lot of 5 ply all wood blades with Koto as top ply
I played a lot of 7ply all wood blades with Koto as top play
I had even 5 ply with construction as Koto Koto Balsa with ANDRO JM Saive OFF-
a lot of not the highest selling blades and a lot of popular choices
TSP Gaia 1/2 , Nittaku Ma Long, Hurricane King x3 (Wang Liqin 08 vibes)
Timo Boll W5/W7, Korbel Speed, Schlager Precision, Avalox p500
Xiom Fuga, Xiom Diva, Defplay Classic Senso, Persson Carbotec, Joola K7, Xiom Vega Euro, 
Timo Boll ZLF x5
Timo Boll ZLC x4
Viscaria x 10
its 36 blades right now
Timo Boll ALC x4 
Andro JM Saive OFF- x3
Butterfly Revoldia 
Andro Kinetic CF Kevlar Carbon
https://revspin.net/blade/andro-kinetic-cf-kevlar-carbon-off.html
Andro Kinetic CF Titanium ALL+ (first reseller blade from my collection)
Andro Saive OFF 
Andro Kinetic OFF+
Andro super core OFF-
it is even my photo on internet
http://a.allegroimg.com/original/1eb878/94de0c31437fbcc288a6e7c28b4a
Victas Dynawood Power
it is 50 blades 
I forgot about 
Kenta Matsudaira ALC
Zhang Jike ZLC x3
Zhang Jike SPZLC x4
Lin Gaoyuan ALC 
it is 59 blades
I can even name 10 blades handmade blades designed by myself and made by my friend from
https://www.facebook.com/Made-by-hand-Table-tennis-blades-104887278688257
I even not mention chinese blades because it was too much, but it is not the highest part of my collection
Tibhar Drinkhall Powerspin
Gewo Force ARC x3
it is 63 blades
Yinhe V14 Pro 
64 blades.

I had blades bought for 40 PLN = 8$ and viscaria O series for 1600 PLN = 320$ 
So you can say money is not part of issue.
you can see Revoldia CNF and Victas Dynawood Power like brothers, this is not funny from Butterfly

I dreamed about ZHANG jike blue dragon, the time of searching was like the highest mountain for me and you can see real Boss in myself , legendary status, big player, all eyez on me.

 I find that I wrote around  111th times about ZHANG jike blue dragon to my female friend WHO had near deadstock ( like new) and she bought by my short recommendation or idea, I send her link and short note.

 The funny part is guy WHO sold her zjk blue dragon was addicted to gambling and he received money but he didnt want to send her the blade 

So I wrote 111th times to her with full good deals just to buy vnds Blue Dragon for me, and she never wants to sell IT....

One day I bought from my different  friend.... 

This blade is like soft Brick without any Control. I put 50 different rubbers, spend 100h with Zhang Jike BD... I never tried destroy anything, because it is like bread to myself.

But here I was shocked how IT works. I was near to put flying knee on my ZJKBLUEDRAGON, IT made me nervous everytime I glued rubbers and played all 2hours training, IT drops my performance to 20%
soft rubbers- ish, hard rubbers ish, hybrid rubbers ish, pips=ish
heating stove-> "Leonardo Di Caprio/Drake pointing finger meme"
 
So I call my female friend  to try different batch for a week and she sends me her Zhang Jike Blue Dragon VNDS with the same rubber  combination (TSP Ventus Spin/Speed)  and IT was the same situation:
- no quality balls, slipping from rubbers, a lot of edges, błocks goes high and loops are going down and it  was worse than Chinese stiff blade from Boer,

 the action was like= low throw and high throw at the same time, no linearity, no pleasure to even hold big size handle,
IT plays too bad on plastic balls
TOOOOOO fast and toooooo slow at the same time, I tried 05/05fx and was like WTF
the nearest blade I can compare  to Zhang Jike Blue Dragon is Yinhe V14 Pro which sounds not that bad, but Yinhe played 20xtimes better

the top ply was easy to destroy, the edges were chipped, every gluing and regluing was nightmare

and it cost me 150 euro, 



Edited by andzejgolot - 01/10/2022 at 8:14am
Zhang jike blue dragon is the worst blade!
From reactional paddles
To playin' some of the hottest TT equipment World has ever seen
From droppin' some of the hottest equipment advices TT has ever heard
Back to Top
Crowsfeather View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/03/2013
Location: Thailand
Status: Offline
Points: 444
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crowsfeather Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2022 at 11:01am
Thank for information sir, I read Nexy thread about wood plys and its very informative.
Ayous property changes between being a core and being second surface, its also easy to process for manufacturer,  so im not surprise why they are so pupolar.

The grain are answer as well, according to cutting process, the same way of making music instrument, quatersawn - riftswan - plain swan


Edited by Crowsfeather - 01/10/2022 at 11:07am
I'm no longer an EJ and I'm proud .
Back to Top
Hipnotic View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/30/2019
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 477
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2022 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by Crowsfeather Crowsfeather wrote:

Thank for information sir, I read Nexy thread about wood plys and its very informative.
Ayous property changes between being a core and being second surface, its also easy to process for manufacturer,  so im not surprise why they are so pupolar.

The grain are answer as well, according to cutting process, the same way of making music instrument, quatersawn - riftswan - plain swan

Grain orientation is important, more with some woods than others. For Ayous is not that important because there are no significant mechanical properties differences in the various directions of the grain. However, for woods like Spruce and Hinoki for example, it's very important.
SDC Handmade Blades / www.sdcttblades.com / Insta - @sdc_tt_blades / Facebook - @SDCblades
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.110 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.