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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2023 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by longrange longrange wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

I agree as well .. the hole created even for the top elite players is troublesome let alone mortals. Moving the right foot that far from ready position at such as angle and also the tell.... the recovery triangle is massive and I can't see it viable unless an outright winner or shot to nothing almost. My question would always be how to get to the wide angle or down the line stroke with any quality after such a stroke with consistency. 

It will interesting if the tactic is used in the higher level and then filter down to us mortals. 
Yes, it's all or nothing. But if I step in for a chiquita from forehand corner it's not much better: block along the diagonal and I'm toasted. Happens, but on my level this risk is totally worth it.

Imo the chiquita from FH corner is way harder than this because the steps are a lot bigger and there are more steps to take (3 in total) unless your right foot is already in the middle line and closer to the table during the receive... 
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FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2023 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by longrange longrange wrote:

Here's Wang Chuqin stepping in with the forehand foot to banana:
Very powerful indeed, but he gets punished, since the opponent is certainly waiting. At 8:4 WCQ does more of a side step and wins the point. I didn't analyze the game but these two I noticed yesterday.
Now if I was playing against this serve, I'd go forehand foot, that's seems to be a good idea on my level.

I agree as well .. the hole created even for the top elite players is troublesome let alone mortals. Moving the right foot that far from ready position at such as angle and also the tell.... the recovery triangle is massive and I can't see it viable unless an outright winner or shot to nothing almost. My question would always be how to get to the wide angle or down the line stroke with any quality after such a stroke with consistency. 

It will interesting if the tactic is used in the higher level and then filter down to us mortals. 

Such things are always relative to the level of your opponent IMHO, I think there is no universal answer to footwork that doesn't depend rely on the balance between ability to recover (for the next shot) on one hand and shot quality (which might make the ball hard to return properly) on the other.  Balance is almost always lost at maximum power and power is almost always lost when you maintain balance.  It's why clean technique rarely ever shows up in matches where you make compromises to get the best shot you need to win points against the opposition while being able to defend against returned balls.  If someone is serving you wide, you have the the choice between putting the ball back safely or going for high risk shots that put you out of position.  
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: C1
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2023 at 11:32pm
I did a lot of training with the right foot forward method to chiquita wide BH balls - I tried it a bit with my old way (left foot forward) and I now think both have their advantages and disadvantages. 

Right foot forward advantage is that it is really easy to apply a lot of power on the chiquita, also you can go down the line much easier than the left foot forward method, even for pushes I think it has much more control as you can use your body rotation. Also, you can cut off wide balls much easier (the reach is more than the left foot method) and you can take the ball earlier because it's 1 step less. I found it much easier to recover fast using this method - it was no sweat to even reach any wide FH balls after the chiquita. 

The real disadvantage of right foot forward is that if the wide serve is long and with pace and your right foot is already forward, your only option is a very awkward weak spinny loop, there's no opportunity to apply power - you really need to be on point with reading the length of the serve.Whereas with the left foot forward it's less of a drastic adjustment to loop the serve if it turns out long and with pace. 

Basically, for max receive quality it's left foot for long fast wide serves and right foot for short slower wide serves. 

Tldr: right foot forward has much better receive quality and also faster recovery but more vulnerable to serve length/pace variations, left foot forward has weaker receive quality and slower recovery but more resilient to serve length/pace variations




Edited by blahness - 01/07/2023 at 11:33pm
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2023 at 12:17am
Update on other aspects:

Continued training the FH pivot, and I was really trying hard to reach the fast block to the wide FH after the FH pivot, and after many tries, for the first time I managed to do it! It is so exhilarating haha to finally do it. And after that I managed to do a few more, but this really gassed me out - was really out of air by that time (the hot conditions didn't help). The immediate spring-like push back after the pivot is crucial to be able to reach that wide FH, otherwise at this speed there's no chance at all. 

I'm gonna see if I can one day reach the wide FH after the pivot and still come back to FH loop the block on the BH haha. 

Played a match against a teenage girl who seemed very well trained and was quite fast to boot. Still beat her 3:0 this time which was a bit surprising, but I think I won due to more advanced techniques she probably hasn't seen before - very deceptive hook/pendulum serves, the chiquita, strawberry receive, BH loop/counter down the line and my very spinny FH opening loop which gave her way too much trouble. I missed a few of her no spin serves - she disguised them very well - it looked almost like heavy underspin (including the trajectory yikes)

I saw a very interesting video by Yin Hang saying that the fade movement is probably the best way to FH loop fast long FH pendulum serves to the FH and also to BH loop fast long BH pendulum serves to the BH - I'm going to try that but it all makes sense - usually with these serves it's a bit awkward to add spin/quality confidently to the loop at the moment because of the way the sidespin curves the ball. So for e.g. the fast long FH pendulum serve curves to the left as it moves - hence it would be easier to "catch" the ball if the blade face was also moving to the left like in a FH fade movement. Vice versa for the BH pendulum serve. 
Edit: Did some practice and found out this is not exactly necessary - the loop can be the usual loop, just that i should be pulling the blade face to the left when approaching the ball against FH sidespin pendulum - and blade face moving to the right when approaching the ball against BH sidespin pendulum - makes it a lot more consistent. 

Training recovery footwork for more footwork patterns. 
1) after serve
2) after stepping in to receive a short serve
3) after the FH loop - including after the pivot, and after the crossover step



Edited by blahness - 01/12/2023 at 6:56am
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Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/18/2023 at 6:37pm
Short tip on BH body usage on rotation. 

The most modern way is to rotate your right shoulder anticlockwise without the left shoulder rotating much at all during the backswing to store energy. This method can produce a lot of energy to power the rotation and is a very explosive power source. 

It's also much faster compared to the method where the left shoulder rotates in sync with the right shoulder (full body turn). 
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Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 5:15pm
Played matches against 2 coaches today, one is a penholder and the other is a combination LP/inverted attacker. Got to deuce many times but still only won a few games lol - they are just too crafty. The new method to BH loop receive against fast BH sidetopspin/sideunderspin serves was really good (by moving the blade face to the right during the loop), it feels a lot more secure, I managed to get a lot back and got myself into a rally where I think I'm favoured against them due to my power. Still fell victim to the numerous tricks they had, and just way too many unforced errors on my FH loop.

One pattern that was incredibly hard to decipher is the fast spinny serve to the BH/wide BH followed by the fast counter/smash to the deep FH. My conclusion of the matter is that I needed to loop these down the line or the elbow area, otherwise I'll just suffer. Well actually I did reach quite a few of them but my legs were just too out from gym training to do it over and over again. 


Edited by blahness - 01/19/2023 at 5:16pm
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2023 at 7:50pm
Few tips on weight transfer and BH:

1) when collecting power from the ground, make sure to put the weight on the front foot and not the rear foot, with the chest facing downwards too. This will prevent the body from "falling backwards"

2) For BH, make sure that the wrist never goes from flexion to extension, but rather stays in flexion. This prevents wrist injuries and makes the supination mechanism stronger. Also increases spin.

3) The method to remove pace from incoming ball can be achieved by a sideways movement (still contacting the back of the ball), especially useful against heavy topspin. 


Edited by blahness - 01/28/2023 at 11:51pm
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 hours 40 minutes ago at 10:43pm
Discovered a new product that may lengthen the shelf life of rubbers. 

So basically instead of vacuum sealing, I'm simply sealing it in a food storage bag, and then throwing in oxygen absorbers and silica gel (absorb water). Hopefully these will be able to prevent oxidation hardening of the rubbers...
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 hours 54 minutes ago at 11:29pm
Did a shit ton of FH loop training today to try to extract more spin quality and to train up footwork. Focused a lot on the legwork in general. This worked quite well but I'm not sure how much of these training will translate into better match results lol... 

Also did a lot of high quality BH topspin rallying to develop better rallying abilities. The left to right pulling of the blade face is a very interesting technique. It appears that you can kill a lot of incoming topspin with this technique and sort of absorb the ball, then you have a lot of options after that (normal BH topspin, fade topspin, fade block or reduced energy block). Weirdly, the pull to the left for the FH doesn't work at all, might as well just counterloop normally.




Edited by blahness - 15 hours 39 minutes ago at 11:44pm
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FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 hours 10 minutes ago at 3:13am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Few tips on weight transfer and BH:

1) when collecting power from the ground, make sure to put the weight on the front foot and not the rear foot, with the chest facing downwards too. This will prevent the body from "falling backwards"

2) For BH, make sure that the wrist never goes from flexion to extension, but rather stays in flexion. This prevents wrist injuries and makes the supination mechanism stronger. Also increases spin.

3) The method to remove pace from incoming ball can be achieved by a sideways movement (still contacting the back of the ball), especially useful against heavy topspin. 

On #2 I learned the hard way. I started training my BH and wasn't using enough of elbow rotation, kept my elbow too close to my body, and tried to compensate by swinging my wrist excessively, finishing each shot with a very extended and radially deviated wrist. I developed a very painful extensor carpi ulnaris tendinitis. 

I was dismayed by the injury, thinking it would hamper my BH development, but it turned out to be a boon. You see, I could still do BH shots without pain so long as I didn't extend my wrist too much. I naturally compensates by using my shoulder (rotating elbow) and biceps (supination), and body more. My BH quality and consistency have improved dramatically as a consequence, and whenever I fall back to my old habits I get a very painful reminder.

My tendinitis is getting a lot better, a little too fast for my liking actually LOL Thankfully it should take 4-6 weeks to completely heal, and I'm trying to focus on BH training so the new motion becomes cemented in my muscle memory. 
Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max
BH: D09C max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 hours 26 minutes ago at 4:57am
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Few tips on weight transfer and BH:

1) when collecting power from the ground, make sure to put the weight on the front foot and not the rear foot, with the chest facing downwards too. This will prevent the body from "falling backwards"

2) For BH, make sure that the wrist never goes from flexion to extension, but rather stays in flexion. This prevents wrist injuries and makes the supination mechanism stronger. Also increases spin.

3) The method to remove pace from incoming ball can be achieved by a sideways movement (still contacting the back of the ball), especially useful against heavy topspin. 

On #2 I learned the hard way. I started training my BH and wasn't using enough of elbow rotation, kept my elbow too close to my body, and tried to compensate by swinging my wrist excessively, finishing each shot with a very extended and radially deviated wrist. I developed a very painful extensor carpi ulnaris tendinitis. 

I was dismayed by the injury, thinking it would hamper my BH development, but it turned out to be a boon. You see, I could still do BH shots without pain so long as I didn't extend my wrist too much. I naturally compensates by using my shoulder (rotating elbow) and biceps (supination), and body more. My BH quality and consistency have improved dramatically as a consequence, and whenever I fall back to my old habits I get a very painful reminder.

My tendinitis is getting a lot better, a little too fast for my liking actually LOL Thankfully it should take 4-6 weeks to completely heal, and I'm trying to focus on BH training so the new motion becomes cemented in my muscle memory. 

If you're interested you should check out Sun Hao Hong's tutorials on Douyin, imo they are even better than Fang Bo's in certain aspects... He insists on the racket always pointing to the left of the hand (thus no wrist extension). He's one of Lin Yun Ju's coaches btw 


Edited by blahness - 9 hours 58 minutes ago at 5:25am
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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