|
|
Valeri Kim vs. Anand Engineer - U2100 Final |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | ||
Robert Trudell
Platinum Member Joined: 05/22/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2089 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 01/03/2009 at 9:58pm |
|
Under 2100 Rated Singles Final - US National Table Tennis Championships http://www.outpost81.com/nationals08/u2100/ Match Video --Rob www.Outpost81.com |
||
Sponsored Links | ||
stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
that's forum member Valerikim
|
||
Valerikim
Member Joined: 04/10/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Robert, thanks for recording and posting this video. |
||
stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
it's funny to hear the groupies andre and bernardo at the end as the shooting continues
|
||
Robert Trudell
Platinum Member Joined: 05/22/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2089 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It's a pleasure. Recognize this guy?: http://www.outpost81.com/nationals08/day0b/index_3.htm --Rob |
||
stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
yep! that's valerikim; and our buddy nikita is in between. I took 2 games in tournaments from both of them. i bet you know the ending ... |
||
7homuz
Gold Member Joined: 07/06/2005 Location: HKG/CAN Status: Offline Points: 1954 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
nice vid
valeri, u playing richmond open this weekend? |
||
Blade:Darker 7P-2A
Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
||
Valerikim
Member Joined: 04/10/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Oh, didn't see these pictures. Thanks, Robert!
|
||
Valerikim
Member Joined: 04/10/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes, of course I am :).
|
||
Robert Trudell
Platinum Member Joined: 05/22/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2089 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
> Oh, didn't see these pictures. Thanks, Robert!
I just found and posted them last night. I was hoping I had some during the match. Even though it was a day or 2 early, I was happy to see I had a couple pictures. --Rob |
||
77g33k
Super Member Joined: 09/08/2008 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 204 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Just asking about USATT rating. I thought USATT rating of 2000 knows how to read spin and serve well. Why is it that serves are a bit high, only on one side of the table and mostly long. It could have been easily killed. Plus the kid only knows one or two kind of stroke, too predictable and modesty aside I could have won over that kid without sweating. I will just push and block my way to victory. But basing on rating/skills table on the USATT website, my USATT rating would have been around 1600 to 1700, 1800 at most.
|
||
Messing opponents with their own spins.
---------------------------------------------------- Main: Sunflex Pro Rubbers:Focus III/Nitakku Express Back-up: Globe Whirlwind Rubbers:Palio CJ8000/DHS 652 |
||
stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
This does not make any sense but I can explain why you said it:
a tt clip will always make the ball appear slower than it is and the player's technique worse. I can assure you a usatt 1700 player will not do much against valerikim. Even USATT 1950 to 2050 will have serious trouble to get a game if he plays in a normal day. I have made movies of myself and of friends and I and they always look MUCH WORSE that what I think I am or they are. just my 2 cents. |
||
infinite_loop
Super Member Joined: 12/21/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 154 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
People who estimate their USATT rating by watching other people's match videos without ever having watched their own match video tend to overestimate their rating by as much as 300-500 points.
Watching one's own match video for the first time will be a very humbling experience for most people. |
||
TSuBaSa
Gold Member Joined: 10/01/2003 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1147 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Proper players. Terrible match... They are training good thats obvius but I think they are playing for 3-4 years at most. There was no varying the spin or placement, they just played...
|
||
Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon
Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
||
77g33k
Super Member Joined: 09/08/2008 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 204 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
If Valerie Kim is the big guy, I can't really be sure I can win but as for the Anand kid I am sure I can win by serving really short, pushing, feeding fast no spin balls balls to his forehand and blocking or killing the the ball to his backhand. Also the serves I can kill most of them since I can smash high long balls anywhere on the table depending on where my opponent is standing. I don't think the small kid is really at 2000 level. |
||
Messing opponents with their own spins.
---------------------------------------------------- Main: Sunflex Pro Rubbers:Focus III/Nitakku Express Back-up: Globe Whirlwind Rubbers:Palio CJ8000/DHS 652 |
||
JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I wholeheartedly agree with the statement about videos being worse than actual technique - every time I see myself playing in the videos, i want to barf |
||
Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
||
benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
First, Val hits very hard. His forehand loop is as fast as anyone less than, say, 2600. It is true that he doesn't vary his spin much, mostly fast, fast, fast, but when you've got a bazooka, why bother with a fly swatter?
Second, Val's BH servers can be difficult to read. This probably isn't an issue for his regular practice partners in Seattle, because you can get used to almost anyone's serves (again, unless they are pro or over 2600). My take is that the kid had trouble reading the serves, so he didn't attack aggressively. That can happen to anyone (including the pros) and when it does, it always makes you look worse.
Third, this being a final, I imagine there was a certain amount of nervousness involved. That can make errors that you wouldn't normally see.
Finally, videos do make us look a lot worse than we are. Trust me, if you meet either of these opponents in a regular match, you'll wonder which train that you over (unless, of course, you're also 2100+).
It is said that to win an event at Nationals takes a skill level about 200 point higher than the event classification. So where does that put Val?
|
||
77g33k
Super Member Joined: 09/08/2008 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 204 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I don't compare my skill basing on the video. I am basing my skill based on the USATT rating/skills table. My conclusions are based on the ball trajectory in the video and the ball trajectory when I play. The way I look at it, the balls during serves in the video are really way above the net and only going one part of the table plus they seem to misread a lot of spins on the ball. As for my serving skills, balls just barely grazes the net whether I serve long/short/backspin/topspin/sidespin and I usually have a lot of lets on my games. In fact when I have a really bad day I lose due to a lot of serves going into the net. Also, whenever I serve high balls, I dont hit it back, I give it as a bonus to my opponent and I can put balls anywhere on the table during my serves. |
||
Messing opponents with their own spins.
---------------------------------------------------- Main: Sunflex Pro Rubbers:Focus III/Nitakku Express Back-up: Globe Whirlwind Rubbers:Palio CJ8000/DHS 652 |
||
TSuBaSa
Gold Member Joined: 10/01/2003 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1147 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
If you're serious than you know nothing about TT. |
||
Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon
Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
||
benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Back at ya.
I was being melodramatic. Even so, clear variation in speed and spin is a critical part of the game at all levels. Even so, have you never played anyone who just loops so hard that it's hard to keep up? At Nationals, the young girl in the women's finals plays all hard hits, and her shots aren't nearly as hard as Val's.
I've played Val, and for me, personally, I like it that he hits hard. Still, I see a lot of other people who can't keep up.
Anyway, the whole discussion is kind of silly. If someone says they can beat the two U2100 finalists from Nationals, then they had better be over 2100 or exlpain why they weren't in that final.
|
||
varghesep
Premier Member Joined: 09/28/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3111 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I have watched Valeri's (I think he is the right person I have seen) game against a chopper from Texas - I think the boy's name is Sam. It was an interesting match.
During the break between the games, I approached Valeri to find out the game count. With a don't care attitude (or little furious) he has told me 'You can't talk to me' now. Hmmm....
I think Valeri is serious about his game. That is good though.
I think Anand is the US Cadet team.
|
||
infinite_loop
Super Member Joined: 12/21/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 154 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
OK It looks like your estimation was based on objective analysis of consistency, quality of placement, ball trajectory, spin and variation. In that case, your estimation is likely to be more accurate. My previous post was a general statement about people who usually go by their gut feel they get on watching the video, as compared to how they feel about their own game (that they haven't watched). That is when they overestimate their rating. |
||
stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I wonder why? mmmh... maybe because he was trying to stay focused and that it was not the good moment for him to start a relationship with a total stranger? Just speculating here |
||
stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
no kidding...some people i know very well did the same to me like "excuse me can I concentrate here???"
I did not take offense because I knew the pressure was so high inside. |
||
varghesep
Premier Member Joined: 09/28/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3111 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I did not take that as a offense. He was right. He should be talking to only one coach not to me.
I was little lost there. I came in the middle of the game and when I have approached him to talk, I have thought the match was over and the other chopper boy has won - the boy was writing in the clip board, so I made that assumption wrongly.
|
||
TSuBaSa
Gold Member Joined: 10/01/2003 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1147 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I'm not saying that Val is not looping hard enough, or they are not good enough to be at u2100 finals, or "I'm 1700-1800 but I can beat them" I'm just saying they are training well but they need more experience. Without that experience, that game was just boring to me ok? ps: I think I'm 2200-2400 and I've played with pro players (I guess they were 2800-3000) and yes when they try to do some kill, that 2.7gr tt ball feels like a baseball ball on my racket. But if I they keep killing those balls with the same speed and spin, than I can keep those balls on the table and believe me you can do it too... |
||
Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon
Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
||
Valerikim
Member Joined: 04/10/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I am sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, but there were a couple of reasons for it. First of all, talking to anyone except your coach during the match is really cheating. I hate when people do this to me, so I avoid doing this even accidentally at all costs.
Secondly, I was leading 2-0 and thought I had the match in the pocket. That's when my opponent made a come back and I only won the match in the 5th set. I guess you tried to talk to me when he was writing the score after 3rd or 4th game, when I desperately tried to figure out what needs to be changed to get back in the game.
By the way, the chopper's name is Lu Chengda and during the tournament he was adjusted from 1900 to 2100. |
||
varghesep
Premier Member Joined: 09/28/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3111 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
That is okay. It is cheating when you talk to anybody other than your coach. I'm sorry for disturbing you.
Wasn't that boy running around the whole area and chopping? I did doubt you would lose when you have slowed down in your attack.
|
||
Valerikim
Member Joined: 04/10/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I will try to respond to all these allegations of me playing crappy against a weak opponent in this video :).
First of all, I agree with all those saying that this video is probably not fun to watch at all. Unless, you are me or Anand. I personally watched it already a dozen times (lots of moments in slow motion and rewinding a lot too).
Here's my vision on the flow of the game. I started the match as I always do. Short heavy underspin or short no-spin serves to the center or forehand, followed by a 3rd ball attack. After figuring out that I deal with a typical "developing kid" game (strong short game with good placement, but not much power in both opening and decisive shots), I decided to let Anand attack first, but from long and low heavy underspin. The plan was to block the 3rd ball to his right shoulder and then get points in counter rallies, but there were almost no rallies, because Anand couldn't read the spin on my serves (especially fast ones down the line or to his shoulder). He was also nervous and rushing a bit, very often going for a power loop instead of a slow and spinny opener. And the absence of rallies is what made this game so little fun to watch I guess.
There's also the absence of variety in all those short exchanges, but for this I am not taking the blame :). Why would I go for a different strategy if I was winning relatively easily and in such an important match?
In one thing, however, I think most posters are not entirely correct. There're 4 most important things in any player's arsenal. Serve, return of the serve, 3rd ball and 4th ball. 90% of all points at ALL levels are decided during these first 4 balls. And higher difference between player's levels always results in less rallies that get even to 4th ball. If you watch a game where Ma Long plays against somebody out of top 50, you will think that he really has no skills except for the serve and 3rd ball super powerfull attack that he doesn't even know how to vary the spin or placement. I hope you understand what I am trying to say here. If the match in this video was decided in the 5th set, there would probably be some entertaining rallies, aggressive returns of many serves and the whole style of the game changing few times.
And to support some posters, I can say that when I first watched the video of myself playing, I was horrified by the crappiness of my game :). But now I know that when Ma Long is watching videos of his matches he is also thinking very often "Why the hell did I do that? That was stupid. Ugh... uglyness" :).
|
||
TSuBaSa
Gold Member Joined: 10/01/2003 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1147 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Look I know that kid not good enough for you and yes he makes a lot of mistakes. Just pushing and blocking does the job. But you were suffering with poor backhand pushes sometime and you didnt do anything about it. But you just cant rely on your oppenent. He was just nerveous and that situation could change in any minute. He served long and killed that third ball at the beginning of the 3th set. Maybe he was gonna make a comeback there? You were winning but at the same time you were the passive guy out there and I think that was wrong. You should vary the spin and do some placement every time you got a chance. Thats my idea and I dont want want to talk about more because you're taking it personaly(and thats just fine)
|
||
Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon
Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
||
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |