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Elmer's Rubber Cement

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:

I think the rule is the rule.....
If you play tournaments, don't use it...
I'm using it for FH, because is hard for me to gule H3 by using water base glue..
 
But....I don't reglue it....and I don't play tournament...Wink
 
So in the spirit of the rule, you are in violation. No excuses...LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JBurn244 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 3:06pm
I mean it just seems like such a silly thing to be so uptight about. Again, it'd be different if RC was undetectable like it is now but significantly changed the playing characteristics of the rubber.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by formidableone14 formidableone14 wrote:

you are inaccurate, I never said I dont play tournaments please show me where I said that.
 
Just to humor you, I toss the ball much higher than required and I wear a black shirt, always.  :D
 
sorry, it wasn't you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:

It's not an enforceable rule because once the solvent system has evaporated, how can a referee tell if it was voc glue or wb glue?
 
+10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by JBurn244 JBurn244 wrote:

I mean it just seems like such a silly thing to be so uptight about. Again, it'd be different if RC was undetectable like it is now but significantly changed the playing characteristics of the rubber.

 
They can use it as an excuse:  I lost to him because he was using RC instead of WBG. Dang it!! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by formidableone14 formidableone14 wrote:

This is illegal, why do people insist on pushing the use of these products.   Just hope that you never play a tournament in which they actually test.  Just step up your game and use VOC free products as ITTF has instructed.
Yes, it will damage you sponge and rubbers as these are not meant to be used in these type of applications.   I dont know about you but my 50-75 dollar rubbers dont want to be tainted by these atrocities.
 
 
Perhaps you'd be interested in what Adham has to say.  I will say though that I've had some success with using Tear Mender.
 
 
Originally posted by Adham Adham wrote:

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Hello Adham and thanks for dropping by our little forum.
 
I'm not going to get into the rules discussion because it looks like you and JimT have had a lively exchange.  I did want some clarification for one specific case, which I've discussed in other forums.  You can consider it trivia if you'd like.
 
Some people like myself don't like any of these new water-based glues.  Mainly, the bond is so strong that it tends to ruin the blade, and with blades getting more and more expensive, that's a bit of a drag.
 
So let's say I use regular rubber cement and let it air out for a few days and it indeed passed the ENEZ, would the racket be legal despite the fact that I used what is technically an illegal substance? Or once the VOC's are gone, will it be legal?  Thanks.

Very good question. In fact, all glues, even water-based glues have some VOCs in them. There is also VOC in between the rubber and the sponge. This is why we always recommend to air the rubbers for at least 48 hours (72 hours will remove all traces of VOCs). So to answer your question, yes, if you aired your racket long enough and no more VOCs are detectable, then you are OK. But you have to be honest, don't use any additives, and don't play with the racket while the glue still has VOCs. But then you should be responsible for your own health issues. Believe me, even though many players underestimate the negative health effects of VOCs in glue, it is really a health problem in the long term. This is a fact and all medical and scientific research proves it.
I believe that the manufacturers will come up with better blades that will not splinter or break when the water-based glues are used.

Adham


Edited by BeaverMD - 07/14/2011 at 4:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote formidableone14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 4:21pm
While that staement does go against my beliefs, I do appreciate you bringing this light onto the subject.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bayttplayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:

I think the rule is the rule.....
If you play tournaments, don't use it...
I'm using it for FH, because is hard for me to gule H3 by using water base glue..
 
But....I don't reglue it....and I don't play tournament...Wink
 
So in the spirit of the rule, you are in violation. No excuses...LOL
Yes, my racket is illegal base ittf rule, but I don't use it play any tournament that use ittf rule.
So, no excuses.
You can find many excuses...but still just excuses..Thumbs Down
The racket itself is illegal, that is a fact..Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 4:40pm
When airing out the RC smell from rubber and blade after application and before adhering the rubber to the blade, how do you guys keep them dust free?
 
Or do you adhere rubber to blade as soon as the RC has dried and then just let the assembed paddle air out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by racquetsforsale racquetsforsale wrote:

When airing out the RC smell from rubber and blade after application and before adhering the rubber to the blade, how do you guys keep them dust free?
 
Or do you adhere rubber to blade as soon as the RC has dried and then just let the assembed paddle air out?
 
I do my gluing process in my garage and never had a dust issue, you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Adham Adham wrote:

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Hello Adham and thanks for dropping by our little forum.
 
I'm not going to get into the rules discussion because it looks like you and JimT have had a lively exchange.  I did want some clarification for one specific case, which I've discussed in other forums.  You can consider it trivia if you'd like.
 
Some people like myself don't like any of these new water-based glues.  Mainly, the bond is so strong that it tends to ruin the blade, and with blades getting more and more expensive, that's a bit of a drag.
 
So let's say I use regular rubber cement and let it air out for a few days and it indeed passed the ENEZ, would the racket be legal despite the fact that I used what is technically an illegal substance? Or once the VOC's are gone, will it be legal?  Thanks.

Very good question. In fact, all glues, even water-based glues have some VOCs in them. There is also VOC in between the rubber and the sponge. This is why we always recommend to air the rubbers for at least 48 hours (72 hours will remove all traces of VOCs). So to answer your question, yes, if you aired your racket long enough and no more VOCs are detectable, then you are OK. But you have to be honest, don't use any additives, and don't play with the racket while the glue still has VOCs. But then you should be responsible for your own health issues. Believe me, even though many players underestimate the negative health effects of VOCs in glue, it is really a health problem in the long term. This is a fact and all medical and scientific research proves it.
I believe that the manufacturers will come up with better blades that will not splinter or break when the water-based glues are used.

Adham


I think this pretty much ends the debate. (Bold added by me for emphasis.)

Thank you, BeaverMD, for locating and posting this.

If the president of the ITTF says that gluing your racquet with "unadulterated" rubber cement is legal, then it's legal (assuming you let it air out). The end.




Edited by Anton Chigurh - 07/14/2011 at 7:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by racquetsforsale racquetsforsale wrote:

When airing out the RC smell from rubber and blade after application and before adhering the rubber to the blade, how do you guys keep them dust free?
 
Or do you adhere rubber to blade as soon as the RC has dried and then just let the assembed paddle air out?
 
I do my gluing process in my garage and never had a dust issue, you?
 
Just in my living room with all the windows opened. My whole house is dusty despite regular dusting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 7:49pm
Can I just add this question:  What in the world is Adham thinking when he says mfgrs will make blades that are resistent to water glue?
 
Perhaps he thinks butterfly will genetically modify the hinoki tree?  Or totally change the woods they're using?  Hello, it's called sealing your blade and anybody can do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 8:03pm
Maybe he's going to open up the restrictions on blades so we can have some made with alloy or composite top plys :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/15/2011 at 4:39am
I tested using RC today. I applied it to two sheets of used 729 Super FX. They really sucked up the stuff and the sponges domed for about 5 minutes. Though the glue layers on both sponges and blade looked a bit uneven right after application, they dried smoothly. The smell was bad during application but after adhering the rubbers to the blade the fumes coming off were minimal and I expect they should mostly be gone by tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/15/2011 at 7:20pm

 
Originally posted by Adham Adham wrote:


Very good question. In fact, all glues, even water-based glues have some VOCs in them. There is also VOC in between the rubber and the sponge. This is why we always recommend to air the rubbers for at least 48 hours (72 hours will remove all traces of VOCs). So to answer your question, yes, if you aired your racket long enough and no more VOCs are detectable, then you are OK. But you have to be honest, don't use any additives, and don't play with the racket while the glue still has VOCs. But then you should be responsible for your own health issues. Believe me, even though many players underestimate the negative health effects of VOCs in glue, it is really a health problem in the long term. This is a fact and all medical and scientific research proves it.
I believe that the manufacturers will come up with better blades that will not splinter or break when the water-based glues are used.

Adham


I'm still trying to figure out what Adham considers a fact.  If VOCs were as dangerous as he implies then Elmer's rubber cement wouldn't be so easily purchased by any kid at the local drug store.  Heck, spray paints are locked up, but not rubber cement.  If it were really that dangerous, then it would not sell so cheaply.  The liability risk would cause the price to increase by quite a bit.  I'd love to see the scientific research that proves that gluing a racket every month or so with rubber cement is dangerous to your health.

Note also how he recommends airing the racket.  Where should it be aired?  And why is that any safer than airing it out while playing with it?  Most playing venues are well ventilated and large, with high ceilings.  Most homes are much more confined.  If Adham is concerned about player health he should be more clear about the "safe" way to air a racket.  BTW, does the ITTF suggest that playing venues be tested for VOC levels.  I'd be willing to bet that some venues are loaded with VOCs - especially newly constructed or freshly painted ones.  The amount of VOCs added by even a hundred speed glued rackets is probably not significant by comparison.

I'm for the speed glue ban because speed gluing promoted a high frequency of exposure by players to a lot of VOCs of various types.  But the ITTF's current zero tolerance takes a good idea and turns it into a silly one.  There is no scientific justification for it (zero tolerance) that I'm aware of.



Edited by wturber - 07/16/2011 at 12:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/15/2011 at 11:44pm
Very logical points Jay. You are keeping it real.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2011 at 12:05am
I buy my rubber cement at the arts and crafts section of Walmart or at an arts and crafts store.  It is relatively cheap compared to water based glue.   I go through one jar of Elmer's rubber cement every 3 months.

The volatile fumes dissipate quickly.  The key letter/word in VOC is volatile which means they volatile components are soon gone.  The end result is similar to water based glues.  I have never experience any enhanced performance using Elmer's rubber cement.

I use water based glues for gluing 0X rubbers and on my best paddle otherwise I use rubber cement.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2011 at 4:30am
If I remember correctly the reason speed glue was banned was because of the VOC's. Not to slow the game down. Didn't a guy die in Japan from being in a room while he was gluing up his bat? I could be wrong. I thought I heard something like that. Now think about this. How many times have you gone to a tourney. Went into the little glue room only to come out with a headache. Remember those little rooms. I have never used SG but just going into the room I would get one. I think the ITTF banned the use of VOC's to protect what little brain cells we have. That's fine with me. But I do use Elmers glue. Not for the effect. Which I don't think there is any. But it's cheaper than the water based you buy at Paddle Palace or other stores. When I glue a sheet of rubber to my bat I don't glue the rubber. I just put a few coats on the bat and it works fine. And I only get new rubber about 4 times a year. And yes I do air the paddle out over night. And It has been checked and it did pass. The other reason I think they banned SG is because some people were getting out of hand with the different things they were mixing with the glue. I know a guy that was mixing gasoline and and a few other things to get the most out of it. I have used the same setup with and without Elmers Glue. No difference. At all. So all you people just looking for stuff to complain about at the ITTf. Get a grip. You can make some of the people happy some of the time, but you can't make all the people happy all of the time.


Edited by RedMan - 07/16/2011 at 4:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2011 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by RedMan RedMan wrote:

... When I glue a sheet of rubber to my bat I don't glue the rubber. I just put a few coats on the bat and it works fine....


Redman,

When peeling off the rubber, does the RC end up on the sponge anyway or does most of it stay on the blade and can be easily removed from the blade?

If this method works, it sure saves the work, however little, of removing it from the sponge.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2011 at 4:07pm
You're right. I've noticed that.

Now that I've tried RC, I'm not going back to wbgs, especially after Free Chack left an entire unremovable film on each of my rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2011 at 1:10am
I don't take the rubber off very often. Only when I am going to replace out. So I really don't pay too much attention when I take it off. But from what I do remember there is not that much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2011 at 1:50am
The guy who died, I read, died of a severe allergic reaction, much like some people react to peanuts.  Still, it was enough to be the straw that broke the camel's back I think.  That or it just became another reason to list for what the ittf already planned to do.
 
I suppose now that it's over I can see their motivations, but I still miss playing with glue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2011 at 2:24am
Years ago a kid died from sleeping near a can of speed glue with out lid but that was back at least in the 90s. There was a more recent death I think which help the latest total ban along. It's not those couple of things that caused the ban though. Mostly it's the long term health effects of long term use of these kinds of glues, which are 100% proven to give you cancer in the end as well as other general health problems
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2011 at 9:45pm
Cole, I never played with SG, but Rob sent me a bottle of tuner (back before ITTF made it clear it waz a No-Go) and I really miss what a sheet of tuned Bryce can do in the countering and looping game. Yeah, we gotz T05, but it is rediculous expensive. :)
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