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The birth of modern table tennis? |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Great, I sent a message to his club. It would be fantastic if we c are able to contact him! |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Below is the introduction for the Swedish table tennis team on Baidu Wiki.
(In the early '70s, after absorbing the loop technique, Europeans mounted an assault on the Asian teams, opening a new chapter of Euro-Asia confrontation, in which Stellan Bengtsson from Sweden was the most representative figure.) Here is an excerpt of an article posted on the Chinese forum fishtt(小魚兒乒乓網). It's titled "Prodigy Bengtsson".
(Even though late-bloomers are not uncommon, but generally speaking, technical breakthrough tends to happen around the age of 18 for men, and 16 for women. For this chapter our prodigy is Bengtsson, born July 26, 1952. The Swedish national table tennis team never hired a foreign coach, with an exception. In early 1962, former WTTC singles champion Ichiro Ogimura of Japan was hired to coach for 10 months. Other than taking leaves when there were important tournaments in Japan, Ogimura shared without reserve his fast-attack and loop techniques. Ultimately, this became the playing style for Bengtsson, a kid just shy of 10 years old. Back then there was the European King Alser, who switched from the defensive style to all-out offensive. However, old habits die hard, so strictly speaking, he became an allround player. There was also the Johansson brothers(TL's note: Kjell and Christer), in particular Kjell who was known as the Hammer(TL's note: Kjell "Hammaren" Johansson). Johansson also played a defensive style, but switched to offensive and got his nickname. Nonetheless, at the time Carl Johan Bernhardt was the best at looping. All in all, Ogimura's 10-month stay meant everything to Swedish rise as the table tennis kingdom. Prodigy Bengtsson became the best player of the fast-attack plus loop style of the '70s. Men's singles World Champion!) Edited by zeio - 01/03/2018 at 2:41pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Magic_M
Platinum Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2220 |
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Fantastic thread. I am happy that I am not the only fan of Stellan Bengtsson.
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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More info on Carl-Johan Bernhardt.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/bordtennis/article22465376.ab There is a clip of Bernhardt playing against Konaka of Japan on April 9, 1965. Swedish proxy needed to watch. https://www.oppetarkiv.se/video/15023508/aktuellt |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Great stuff! Thanks Zeio! It's all coming together now.
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Thank you Magic_M! I believe more should be done to memorialize the impact that he and Ogimura had on the game. Of course, not to understate the effects that the Chinese players had on pushing everyone to find new strategies, tactics and techniques.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Eastern European contemporaries of Bengtsson like Surbek were looping heavily. They weren't moving as quickly and it seemed to come from the arm.
With inverted rubber looping was an obvious thing to do. Hell, in 1970 I was looping my forehand and so did every other kid at the Kevinge Bordtennis club. But there easn't much emphasis on how to move. By yhe eay, Jimmy Butler, who was coached by Stellan in Sweden, in response to my text. also suggests there was a lot of Kapanese influence. He hss told me the footworh drills they did when he was in Sweden were brutal. |
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Baal
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Somewher therr is a youtube instructional video from Japan from around 1958 showing Ogimura and another Japanese player doing a lot of training drills. I need to find it. It is fascinating.
Edit. And here it is! I recommend this one highly. You can see footwork drills (especially around 9:00 mark), early counter looping, all sorts of cool stuff (even penhold chopping), along with an interesting sound track (a flute concerto by Jean Pierre Rampal). These guys were defitinely moving better than their European counterparts of that era. http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=6mEegMVTbIQ |
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Baal
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A couple more great video. China vs Yugoslavia 1973 and 1975. Lots of chances to see Surbek and Stipancic.
Also Xu Shao Fa (same guy the ball is named after, one of the first people to use a high toss serve). If you compare, you can see the Bengtsson moved so effortlessly compared to his contemporaries, but there is plenty of looping going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aTT0iIqaRI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLvZwj2duUk&t=1s |
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Baal
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Thanks for the information and videos Baal!
Thinking about Chinese innovation at the time, probably the most important were the short blocks and 3 ball offense which was devasting until Bengtsson introduced his own version of a two wing, short stroke, power style. One has to be very fast and use core power for this kind of game which he drew from Ogimura but also and amplified. |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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In the short clip of the match between Bernhardt and Konaka in 1965, both already were counter-looping off the table. Konaka's strokes already looked more or less the modern form with the backswing, weight transfer, step-around footwork, and trunk rotation.
From 1966-1970, CNT was absent from international tournaments as China was in the midst of the Cultural Revolution. The progress of Chinese table tennis practically halted. This period provided a rare environment for the western countries, namely Sweden and Hungary, to work on the new style. Sweden focused more on speed, whereas Hungary focused more on spin. I've read a Chinese article depicting the distinct features of the two. Will see if I can dig it out. Edited by zeio - 11/11/2017 at 1:23pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
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That other player in the Japanese instructional video may have been Tanaka. I have bookmarked that particular video. There is an impressive display of forehand and backhand lobbing by both players, and I believe it was Ogimura who demonstrated both a forehand and backhand chop from close to the table, mid-distance, and long distance.
Edited by berndt_mann - 11/11/2017 at 1:21pm |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Always have to include the Hungarians in any discussion of the transition to modern shakehand style. I think by the time if this video they are already using speed glue, but I always admired Klampar's economy of motion and energy and his beautiful touch. In another thread I posted a slow motion study of Klampar's backhand. He still uses pretty much using the same style today that he used back then, and still playing great.
Edited by richrf - 11/11/2017 at 3:28pm |
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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Absolutely amazing thread this, I love it, thanks for all the brilliant contributions. One thing I am interested in is the time gap between the innovations regarding junior players and that progressing to those individuals making an impact on the top of the world scene. It is becoming obvious that the real transgression from the classic to modern game was the 1960's, I think most of us kind of knew that, but it is nice to see this analysed in detail here.
Another interesting fact for me, is that this is well before the information technology boom, so innovations must have been spread more sedately. The knowledge back then was virtually exclusively passed on through coaches. Also note, in virtually every clip, the table used is the Stiga Expert VM, IMO the best table ever made.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Here is an early Hungarian training film demonstrating their newly developed super-loop technique. Note, this is pre-speed glue era. |
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Baal
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Yes Im almost certain tbe other player is Tanaka. |
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Baal
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Also the Yugoslavs knew what the Hungarians were up to and copied it. They did not like each other.
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Do we know who discovered speed glue first? Some say Klampar, others say Surbek.
Edited by richrf - 11/11/2017 at 3:30pm |
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Baal
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All I have heard is "Hungarians". I don't recall reading which.
Surbek is Croatian (Yugoslavia in his playing days). |
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NextLevel
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Easily one of the best mytt threads of all time. It should be stickied in the coaching forum.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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A recent video of Istvan Jonyer, Klampar's teammate in the early 70s and 80s, showing his double wing super-loop technique that earned him numerous titles.
Edited by richrf - 11/11/2017 at 11:31pm |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Yes, Toshiaki Tanaka. I skipped the passage about him and Ogimura performing in the film. Added it back. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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The story for the discovery of speed glue goes like this:
USA TABLE TENNIS MAGAZINE • Mar/Apr 2009
As well as the effect it had on the technical progress.
Edited by zeio - 11/12/2017 at 12:55am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Thanks Zeio. Great story!
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zeio
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However, there is another version of the story that has popped up in China fairly recently. Below is an excerpt.
(In fact, I'm a chemist Dominique Lohest is a French born in Paris. Now in his 60s, he has lived in Belgium for over 30 years. His best ranking in Beligum was number 6, and his wife was 5-time Belgium champion, and her two daughters with dual nationality. Dominique studied in France and Belgium. After graduation, he worked for a few years at a chemical factory, before starting his own company(TRF Belgium S.A.) to this date. Apparently, the role of athlete was not the end of road for him, showing his pleasant side when being referred by the CEO title. Still he stressed multiple times during the entire interview, "I'm a chemist." This is how speed glue came about Several stories are flowing in the community, most of which all feature one individual - Klampar, who not only is a super talent, but also legend has it he is the first to use speed glue, and spread it all over Europe and across the world. Every story related to prodigy has this mystical, compelling quality, but the reality is often the polar opposite. Dominique trained in Hungary in his early days, and tried speed glue merely by chance. Back then, people leave their rubbers on the blades for months on end. One time a coach had Dominique change his racket. Right away, he found his shots much faster, and at first he thought it was the blade, but the speed would drop substantially after a few hours. Puzzled, he went through the same process time and time again, and finally realized it was the glue. Geared with his chemical know-how, he performed chromatography on the glue, marking the chemical molecules capable of expanding rubber and increasing elasticity. Afterwards, he researched and developed on this principle, producing a speed glue suitable for table tennis players. He started a company and supplied to all major brands, becoming a leader of a generation, earning him the nickname "King of Glue" among the Germans. In the late '70s, Dominique invented the speed glue. Proximity means priority. Belgium players were the first beneficiaries, including the young Saive. Through trainings and exchanges, well-known players such as Jonyer, Klampar, Gergely quickly caught on to speed glue. Since then, the speed of adoption across the entire Europe was nourished by "the glue supplement." Gatien, Waldner, Rosskopf et al. were all gluing maniacs who couldn't skip the ceremony before every match. CNT was late to the party(TL's note: confirmed by Jiang Jialiang). When foreign players ripped their rubbers off the blades after matches, the Chinese players thought they did it out of anger. When Ma Wenge became the first Chinese player to get his feet wet at WTTC 1991, many coaches in China were still clueless about gluing. Needless to say, the glue used by those players came from none other than Dominique.) Edited by zeio - 11/12/2017 at 3:35am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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Speed glue was not developed for table tennis, it is vulcanising glue used in the tyre industry.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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That's the version most commonly seen on the net in China, it's said Klampar ran out the glue he usually used, and there was a bike shop close to where he trained, so he went and grabbed a bottle of the tire glue and that's how he noticed the effect. From there speed glue was then developed.
Edited by zeio - 11/12/2017 at 3:51am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Another version I read was that the effect of tire/mechanics glue was accidently discovered by a non-professional and then passed along through clubs. It's possible that is was discovered in multiple ways over a period of time by multiple people. Surbek is also given credit in another story. I guess this mystery will never be solved.
Edited by richrf - 11/12/2017 at 8:09am |
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Baal
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For years people here bought our speed glue at auto parts stores. Cheaper and better.
Compared to the effect of that stuff, boosting is barely noticeable. |
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