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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2010 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

 
Long pips will help you to get to a certain level faster but they are actually a handicap once you reach a certain level..
 That says an awful lot about you Mr Pushblocker, I applaud you for that.
The Older I get, The better I was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphapong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 2:47am
Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:


I've seen it happen over and over:  a player with good footwork and swings loses to a fatass who stands there and lets his junk rubber do all the work for him.


That's funny. I  thought I saw those same matches. Here's what I Saw: A player with good touch and tactics beats a fathead who stands there mindlessly swinging away with no preparation, strategy, or understanding of what he is doing, hoping that his world class super duper power loop will do all the work for him.

I do however think that it just is not fair for people with an IQ under 90 to have to play someone with long pips. Really this kind of thing should be factored into the groupings at tournaments just like club affiliation. It would be pretty simple to implement. Entry forms just need an extra check box next to the club affiliation. "Sub 90 IQ. No pips please."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 3:13am
Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

That's funny. I  thought I saw those same matches. Here's what I Saw: A player with good touch and tactics beats a fathead who stands there mindlessly swinging away with no preparation, strategy, or understanding of what he is doing, hoping that his world class super duper power loop will do all the work for him.I do however think that it just is not fair for people with an IQ under 90 to have to play someone with long pips. Really this kind of thing should be factored into the groupings at tournaments just like club affiliation. It would be pretty simple to implement. Entry forms just need an extra check box next to the club affiliation. "Sub 90 IQ. No pips please."


I don't think the best way to deal with an insult is to rephrase the same thing and sling it back at him. It's similar to "Nah uh, YOU'RE the stupid head!"
But yeah, people have no right to complain about long pips really, if you lose because they have long pips, you lost because you are unable to read spin and have problems looping anything but simple topspin. It does require you to think, but they are thinking more as well. People just get into a rut when playing something they aren't used to and fail to adjust their tactics. That is their main weakness, not their stupidity, it's more like being stubborn, because surely they know how to return backspin otherwise they would never return a serve, and surely they know what to do with a dead ball, everyone starts off like that and learns to smash and flat hit before loop. It's not due to lack of knowledge, they are just too stubborn to change their style to play someone different.

I played with long pips in a tournament, I stopped using it after that because I felt it didn't help me beat anyone I wouldn't have already beaten without it and in fact was a disadvantage, even at a low level, against players who knew how to play against it. Infact I'm pretty sure I lost one very close match simply due to lack off offence from the backhand.
I played a guy who had never seen long pips before and between rounds explained it to him, how they worked, what strokes with it would do, tactics against it, etc. and we ended up playing each other in the later rounds of groups and he did much better against me the second time around, made far less errors against the long pips. Just takes a little adjustment and changing gears.

That being said, if a player truly had "good footwork and swings" they wouldn't have problems looping back weak backspin and dead balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 9:31am
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Not to mention that even against not-so-high rated players who use SP or hard-sponged rubbers, LPs do not cause that much confusion and therefore a 2100-2200 rated LP player might find himself losing to a 1900-2000 inverted or SP player simply because the other guy is not bothered by LP deception factor.


The highest rated regular at my club is a 2100 rated combination user, plays away from the table with long pips and tenergy on a fast blade using location and twiddling. He's been more or less at the same level though for the last 10+ years though even though he plays more than any other person at the club and doesn't really have and weaknesses in his game. A 2000 level strong looper beats him more times than not because he reads the spin well and isn't fooled by anything. I have little doubt he'd fare better against higher people with inverted on both sides, however it keeps him at this same level.
 
I think that deception plays a much smaller role above 2000+ level. If somebody is good playing against a chopper is really no indication if they are good against a blocker. My game for example is all about messing up the opponents timing. A chopper (when playing defensive) gives a attacker more time to read the spin and attack. My off the bounce blocking style is all about placement and catching the opponent in a bad position to make unforced errors. Even though equipment between chopers and blockers (with long pips) is somewhat similar, playing against each style is quite different. Things that work against choppers often don't work against blockers.. The #1 skill against a long pips blocker is PATIENCE!! #1 skill against a chopper is reading his spin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 9:36am
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

 
Long pips will help you to get to a certain level faster but they are actually a handicap once you reach a certain level..
 That says an awful lot about you Mr Pushblocker, I applaud you for that.
I noticed this myself when I was a young player.. Back in the country where I was born, I went from playing in the 16th highest class to playing in the 8th highest playing class in Vienna/Austria WITHIN 1 SEASON by just switching to long pips. However, my improvement slowed dramatically once I reached the 4th highest playing class in Vienna, I got stuck at my level and wasn't able to improve any more..  When I came to the US (after a few years of TT break), I improved my game mostly due to better understanding of the sport and strategy. While I also improved my game, I mostly improved by adding effective and distuptive playing patterns into my game. My game is all about how I can break my opponents game..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 9:43am
Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:


I've seen it happen over and over:  a player with good footwork and swings loses to a fatass who stands there and lets his junk rubber do all the work for him.


That's funny. I  thought I saw those same matches. Here's what I Saw: A player with good touch and tactics beats a fathead who stands there mindlessly swinging away with no preparation, strategy, or understanding of what he is doing, hoping that his world class super duper power loop will do all the work for him.

I do however think that it just is not fair for people with an IQ under 90 to have to play someone with long pips. Really this kind of thing should be factored into the groupings at tournaments just like club affiliation. It would be pretty simple to implement. Entry forms just need an extra check box next to the club affiliation. "Sub 90 IQ. No pips please."

 
I agree!  I think that what is very important in table tennis is the understanding of the game. Whatever style you play, it is important to understand what the opponent and his equipment are doing. There really is no such thing as unpredictable equipment.   Just because somebody does not understand what the equipment does, doesn't make it unpredictable.  Let's look at long pips.. There are different types. Some produce mostly dead balls (the majority) if the stroke is passive. Others produce slightly reversed spin (but not a whole lot of reversal). However, the timing of the contact is critical of how much reversal you get. The earlier you contact the ball with long pips and the shorter the dwell time, the more reversal you will get. So, on a balsa wood with a low friction long pips rubber, you will get decent reversal on a off the bounce block. However, if you block on the table, you'll probably get a dead ball.. Now, what seems to be deception, in reality is NOT.  Sometimes it depends on your own spin on how much spin you get back. I can say with 100% certainty that if you repeat the identical stroke against identical spin with identical timing, the result will be the same every time!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 10:12am
Dead ball vs. spin reversal can be deceiving but its also predictable once you get used to it. I think most of the "deception" of playing a LP blocker is when you have any kind of side spin on the ball and it comes back like a cork-screw making it very hard to judge how/where to hit it... Rule #1 don't used side spin when playing a LP blocker! LOL

(Ok, actually I would say "patience" is rule #1, but rule #2 is don't use side spin serves.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 11:17am
Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

Dead ball vs. spin reversal can be deceiving but its also predictable once you get used to it. I think most of the "deception" of playing a LP blocker is when you have any kind of side spin on the ball and it comes back like a cork-screw making it very hard to judge how/where to hit it... Rule #1 don't used side spin when playing a LP blocker! LOL

(Ok, actually I would say "patience" is rule #1, but rule #2 is don't use side spin serves.)


 
I think that rule #1 against a good long pips blocker is: Don't serve short.. The moment you give my a short serve, I'll use the angles and keep you out of position.
Rule #2 should be to be patient and PICK YOUR HITS. If you try to attack every ball, you are going to look really bad fast..
Rule #3, if the opponent has a good reversing rubber, use low amounts of spin as your own spin will work against yourself.. Long pips, even grippy ones will not produce a lot of spin themselves and if you don't give a long pips player spin to work with, the spin returned is usually attackable.
Rule #4: IF you attack and your attack comes back, push the return back and then attack the opponents long pips push against your push. The long pips push will either be dead or have slight topspin and if you close the angle appropriately, you should be able to attack that ball very strong!
 
Of course, I'm aware of all the things that good players do against long pips and developed counter-measures..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2010 at 1:58am
Hi, Pushblocker what equipment do you use?
Stiga Clipper Wood,Butterfly Power Drive, Viscaria,
CUSTOM: BBC, PALATINUS, ROSS, BORKO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2010 at 8:42am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

I have 2 setups.. One is a little bit more offensive..

The slower setup is:
 
Butterfly Grubba Variant Blade with Friendship 729 SST 1.5 mm hard sponge and AIR Upupupup OX in the UQ version  (black)
 
The slightly faster setup is: (faster due to the slightly faster blade speed)
 
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus blade with Friendship 729 SST 1.5 mm hard sponge and TTMaster Fireproof OX
 
Rating is 2225 US Rating


from the 1800 thread
US1260.RC952 . Yasaka Gatien Extra : Target National + Rasant
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hungga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2010 at 10:02pm
Aye, those bas**** LP users. I just have to curse them, I have to. It's just a sin not to. LP users, die please. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2010 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by hungga hungga wrote:

Aye, those bas**** LP users. I just have to curse them, I have to. It's just a sin not to. LP users, die please. LOL
 
Thank you. 
 
LOOPMEISTER here's your poster child of a harmless LP hater... We love your blessing hungga!  But to be polite, you first please...  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hungga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2010 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Originally posted by hungga hungga wrote:

Aye, those bas**** LP users. I just have to curse them, I have to. It's just a sin not to. LP users, die please. LOL
 
Thank you. 
 
LOOPMEISTER here's your poster child of a harmless LP hater... We love your blessing hungga!  But to be polite, you first please...  LOL

LOL. But on the good side, thanks for making this world a bit different. 
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