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Chinese forehand Vs. Euro forehand?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boaspirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2014 at 2:49am
Originally posted by DDreamer DDreamer wrote:

No spamming - I just don't understand. You loop off the bounce against chop?

yes its easier that way.... at least to me

EDIT:
when i say off the bounce is when the ball is bouncing to its highest point


Edited by boaspirit - 02/21/2014 at 2:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDreamer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2014 at 3:03am
You mean at the top of the bounce not off the bounce? Off the bounce is when you take the ball very early.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boaspirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2014 at 3:06am
Originally posted by DDreamer DDreamer wrote:

You mean at the top of the bounce not off the bounce? Off the bounce is when you take the ball very early.

yea sorry for the misunderstaning
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2014 at 9:04am
For chop ball I think it's easier to contact the ball on the fall, so you can lift the ball easier with a more upward stroke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2014 at 12:10pm
The worst time to loop an under-spinning ball is when it starts to fall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2014 at 3:39pm
Hey guys, you can do both you know, depends if you are going for spin or pace, or something in-between, but ultimately, you have to read what is on the incoming ball, then choose accordingly. Its possible to heavy topspin an incoming float, or 'dummy loop' an incoming heavy chop, the key is reading spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aroonkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2014 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by atomant atomant wrote:

The worst time to loop an under-spinning ball is when it starts to fall.
Nah, Opposite. It is the easiest one. Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2014 at 11:08pm
Our coach here in AZ suggests taking the ball right off the bounce - close to the table - and brushing it. But, I can't brush loop to save myself so why I am I even posting? LOL 

Edited by tommyzai - 02/22/2014 at 11:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aroonkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/23/2014 at 1:47am
Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

Our coach here in AZ suggests taking the ball right off the bounce - close to the table - and brushing it. But, I can't brush loop to save myself so why I am I even posting? LOL 
When the loop (control loop) againt heavy underspin  takes at right off the bounce, it helps as the ball will not feel that heavy. The momentum of rising ball helps your uplift stroke. 
But the bad part is, it is harder to master and to have good control of height & placement of on-going balls. If player really does not have good swing and brush motion to cope with heavy underspin. Try to loop balls on early rising might help.


Edited by aroonkl - 03/02/2014 at 4:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j0hn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2015 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Originally posted by atomant atomant wrote:

The worst time to loop an under-spinning ball is when it starts to fall.

Nah, Opposite. It is the easiest one. Smile



its easier to loop an underspin when it hit its peak. when the ball starts to fall, underspin starts to kicks in and much harder to loop. it will require a player to excert much effort to counter spin it.

just my two cents :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2015 at 7:58pm
the thread that will not die :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2015 at 2:59am
Originally posted by j0hn j0hn wrote:

Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Originally posted by atomant atomant wrote:

The worst time to loop an under-spinning ball is when it starts to fall.

Nah, Opposite. It is the easiest one. Smile



its easier to loop an underspin when it hit its peak. when the ball starts to fall, underspin starts to kicks in and much harder to loop. it will require a player to excert much effort to counter spin it.

just my two cents :)
Depends upon your stroke and your intent and also what you mean by "easier".  If your goal is a fast attack, then you're better offer hitting at the top of the bounce. If your goal is to make more spin with slower pace, then it's better to hit after the top of the bounce.  I would not say either shot is easier or harder, just than they naturally lend themselves to different purposes.

By comparison, it is definitely harder to loop against underspin before the top of the bounce (i.e., early).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2015 at 9:16am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by j0hn j0hn wrote:

Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Originally posted by atomant atomant wrote:

The worst time to loop an under-spinning ball is when it starts to fall.

Nah, Opposite. It is the easiest one. Smile



its easier to loop an underspin when it hit its peak. when the ball starts to fall, underspin starts to kicks in and much harder to loop. it will require a player to excert much effort to counter spin it.

just my two cents :)
Depends upon your stroke and your intent and also what you mean by "easier".  If your goal is a fast attack, then you're better offer hitting at the top of the bounce. If your goal is to make more spin with slower pace, then it's better to hit after the top of the bounce.  I would not say either shot is easier or harder, just than they naturally lend themselves to different purposes.

By comparison, it is definitely harder to loop against underspin before the top of the bounce (i.e., early).

Not in my experience if the ball has cleared net height. and not in my experience when I am over the table looping.


Edited by NextLevel - 05/29/2015 at 11:07am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ringer84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2015 at 9:21am
I posted this article here once before about looping backspin, but I'm still not sure how accurate it is. To be honest, I'm confused about my timing when looping backspin right now.  I guess I just need to learn to loop the ball at all points (off the bounce, top of the bounce, on the fall).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2015 at 9:47am
Originally posted by Ringer84 Ringer84 wrote:

I posted this article here once before about looping backspin, but I'm still not sure how accurate it is. To be honest, I'm confused about my timing when looping backspin right now.  I guess I just need to learn to loop the ball at all points (off the bounce, top of the bounce, on the fall).

Don't waste your time with the theory. When you have a good looping stroke, it all comes automatically with practice.

One of the things I learned from Brett (and I wrote this elsewhere) is that most of our true learning doesn't come from all this theory speak.  It comes from developing good technical foundations and practicing more against a variety of balls/spins to make sure that you are reading the spin before executing the stroke and don't get locked into hitting the ball one way.  Once you have a good looping stroke and you look at the ball trajectory (which you will have been doing from years of playing and which you will be able to do more easily once the looping stroke is unconscious), your practice against various balls in the same session via multiball or playing a combination player with good control will enhance your ability to read spin all by it self.  

Yes, some people will learn things faster because they are better at one thing or another (the most important things are reading spin, adapting to the spin and generating good racket head speed to match the spin).  But if you have to focus on one thing right now, focus on having a good quality forehand loop.  TTEdge has everything you need and you are already an experienced player with good technique so it shouldn't take forever, IMO (no pressure - hahahahaha).

The key is to stop doing what adults do and assume they know what is happening when they learn. Just get a good stroke against topspin, test it against backspin (it will adjust with practice) and practice against ball variation.  You will figure out where to hit the ball and how to hit the ball to get the preferred effect you are looking for, no manual-on-how-to-loop-side-back-cork necessary!


Edited by NextLevel - 05/29/2015 at 10:15am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2015 at 11:03am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by j0hn j0hn wrote:

Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Originally posted by atomant atomant wrote:

The worst time to loop an under-spinning ball is when it starts to fall.

Nah, Opposite. It is the easiest one. Smile



its easier to loop an underspin when it hit its peak. when the ball starts to fall, underspin starts to kicks in and much harder to loop. it will require a player to excert much effort to counter spin it.

just my two cents :)

Depends upon your stroke and your intent and also what you mean by "easier".  If your goal is a fast attack, then you're better offer hitting at the top of the bounce. If your goal is to make more spin with slower pace, then it's better to hit after the top of the bounce.  I would not say either shot is easier or harder, just than they naturally lend themselves to different purposes.

By comparison, it is definitely harder to loop against underspin before the top of the bounce (i.e., early).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2015 at 9:53pm
I have no idea what you guys are talking about. The best timing to loop any shot is before the top of the bounce. Underspin will feel less heavy if you loop before the top of the bounce. Same with topspin. But often when footwork/anticipation isn't good enough, you're forced to loop after the top of the bounce. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2018 at 7:23pm
in the past 2 years i have struggled to use tuned hard Chinese Rubber on my forehand, having already a damaged shoulder from college tennis and age catching up with me, i can't swing that fast and if i do, i am sore for a couple of days afterwards...so i am back to trying to adjust and play with euro/japanese firmer rubbers on my forehand but i am still trying to adjust my swing technique...at least my shoulder feels better, but my forehand is not as effective...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2018 at 9:37pm
I have seen emihet and his FH. emihet knows what to do, but he has damaged goods on his hitting shoulder. WHEN he decides to make a FH opener, it is effective, no matter what he uses. Of course, it is harder to get the most out of a tuned Chinese rubber with his shoulder. emihet is very successful at using his FH for the middle shots to keep in the rally, change the spin for errors, or keep some pressure.

Those last three shot sequences count a LOT more for a 2000 player's game than the macho man FH. Yet, everyone seems to want a macho man FH. (emihet only wants a macho man FH on a fraction of his shots) (that is one reason why he is successful at 2100-2200 level)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2018 at 1:38pm
I can't believe that this thread is still going, there is no difference, It is all just down to physics, Footwork and materials.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2018 at 9:26pm
Ditto Andy, 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clarence247 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2018 at 9:40pm
[/QUOTE]
Depends upon your stroke and your intent and also what you mean by "easier".  If your goal is a fast attack, then you're better offer hitting at the top of the bounce. If your goal is to make more spin with slower pace, then it's better to hit after the top of the bounce.  I would not say either shot is easier or harder, just than they naturally lend themselves to different purposes.

By comparison, it is definitely harder to loop against underspin before the top of the bounce (i.e., early).
[/QUOTE]

This statement is true... I remember training with my Chinese coach between 1996-2000... we practiced 2 ways - hit at the top of the bounce (this was taught 1st until near perfection was achieved - VERY few net or long balls) Then after we mastered that, he started to teach us how to WAIT for the ball - wait for it to start dropping (especially vs an underspin return) once it does, hit the opening loop (not power, spin, slightly more lift than forward motion) the result is an opening loop with great spin and placement - setting up for the 5th ball.

I stopped for 16 years and then trained once again at a professional club in Hungary - there they immediately said - WAIT for the ball - no top of the bounce - probably this is because modern grippy rubbers allow for this, you can wait and STILL attack with speed because the rubbers lift backspin so well now! But it might also be that that's the way they have always done it....

From my experience therefore:
My Chinese coach - asked me to learn BOTH - top of the bounce - more forward, less lift motion , more speed for a loop aimed at the edge of the table - even on the opening
2) WAIT let the ball drop a little, as soon as it starts to drop - opening loop - more lift, less forward motion = a loop which clears the net and bounces shortly after the net.
3) He always criticized opening loops which landed in the MIDDLE of the table, and he loop killed all of them - he finished the point on the 4th ball taking the attack, without letting me get the 5th ball if I looped this way - the opening loop HAD to be either long and fast or short and very spinny

European coaches + modern equipment.
WAIT - always
Then aim long or short, again avoid middle (but less emphasis placed on this + they never could finish me off if I gave a loop in the middle range) - with modern rubbers it is easier to WAIT and then you can still chose a long and fast or a short and spinny opening loop.


HOWEVER:

I did try top of the bounce looping on opening loops with my old technique and it works well if you have rubbers which are not so High throw - for example it works better with Rakza 7 than with Tenergy 05. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king_pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2018 at 1:39am
Originally posted by Clarence247 Clarence247 wrote:


This statement is true... I remember training with my Chinese coach between 1996-2000... we practiced 2 ways - hit at the top of the bounce (this was taught 1st until near perfection was achieved - VERY few net or long balls) Then after we mastered that, he started to teach us how to WAIT for the ball - wait for it to start dropping (especially vs an underspin return) once it does, hit the opening loop (not power, spin, slightly more lift than forward motion) the result is an opening loop with great spin and placement - setting up for the 5th ball.

I stopped for 16 years and then trained once again at a professional club in Hungary - there they immediately said - WAIT for the ball - no top of the bounce - probably this is because modern grippy rubbers allow for this, you can wait and STILL attack with speed because the rubbers lift backspin so well now! But it might also be that that's the way they have always done it....

From my experience therefore:
My Chinese coach - asked me to learn BOTH - top of the bounce - more forward, less lift motion , more speed for a loop aimed at the edge of the table - even on the opening
2) WAIT let the ball drop a little, as soon as it starts to drop - opening loop - more lift, less forward motion = a loop which clears the net and bounces shortly after the net.
3) He always criticized opening loops which landed in the MIDDLE of the table, and he loop killed all of them - he finished the point on the 4th ball taking the attack, without letting me get the 5th ball if I looped this way - the opening loop HAD to be either long and fast or short and very spinny

European coaches + modern equipment.
WAIT - always
Then aim long or short, again avoid middle (but less emphasis placed on this + they never could finish me off if I gave a loop in the middle range) - with modern rubbers it is easier to WAIT and then you can still chose a long and fast or a short and spinny opening loop.


HOWEVER:

I did try top of the bounce looping on opening loops with my old technique and it works well if you have rubbers which are not so High throw - for example it works better with Rakza 7 than with Tenergy 05. 


Good intel. Thanks Clarence. Hadn't thought of it like that, but it makes sense.

Edited by king_pong - 08/01/2018 at 1:43am
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