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The pro's equipment -discussion and questions! |
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Claudiu84
Super Member Joined: 10/30/2012 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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Maaaaan, what kind of blade is in third picture? Edited by Claudiu84 - 11/16/2017 at 9:27am |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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I think the primary points that new readers need to understand is that:
1) No one, other than the pros themselves, know what they are using. 2) Pros, as far as I can tell, rarely, if ever, discuss their equipment. 3) Manufacturers have no shame and will make all kinds of claims, with plausible deniability (they can claim that they thought the pro was using their equipment). 4) Whatever is stated on a forum is meaningless. What counts is what the manufacturers state on their website and packaging, which is that they are legal libel. If composition, weight, etc. are not explicitly stated, it can be anything. Other than this, a thread such as this is in good fun and part of the sport. Edited by richrf - 11/16/2017 at 9:54am |
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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but if you make a blade thats is not the same as the pro player use then you re deceiving the customers.it can be better quality but not diferent |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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There is a certain amount of deception going on. To what extent is unclear. It probably varies from a little to a lot, but no one knows. Best, that everyone understands that no one knows, and discussions such as this are all in good fun. Edited by richrf - 11/16/2017 at 9:59am |
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*_strataras_*
Gold Member Joined: 04/19/2010 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1156 |
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I dont think it is about fooling the other people, but saying a lie for professional purposes. Dont forget he is professional and he has contract with stiga and he gets money from stiga. What did you expect from him to do? - To take the money from the contract he has from stiga and then claiming to everyone that he plays with butterfly blade??? - Camera shoots him on close shots and everyone sees that he plays with a viscaria, and he doesn't go in an interview and say that he doesn't use butterfly and he uses stiga, although we everyone have seen a viscaria blade with different handle cups. If he has done so, then he would fool us. From the moment we all seee him using a butterfly blade and he doesn't claim the opposite, then he doesn't fool us.
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5307 |
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*_strataras_*
this is fooling |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Yes, there is deception, but very carefully worded. There is no claim that he is using the blade in any tournament. He could be using it for precision hammering. ☺ Without parceing out every ad claim, it should be sufficient to acknowledge that similar type of endorsements are part of every sport, and this thread can simply acknowledge this. So, if someone is using a handle with Corbonado on it, all it means that it is a paid ad just like the ads on the shirts. Edited by richrf - 11/16/2017 at 10:46am |
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5307 |
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people buy this blade because they think FZD use it. so all this people where fooled
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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There is deception just like there is in Michael Jordon shoes, or Wheaties the Breakfast of Champions. The best we can do is not to help propagate it. |
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Shifu
Super Member Joined: 01/15/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 388 |
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But FZD plays with W968 so your Viscaria Argument has become irrelevant :D
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Nothing new, not in table tennis or anything else. How many blades did Tibhar make over the years with Samsonov's name on it? Butterfly makes an entire series of ZJK blades with a wide range of materials and compositions, and ZJK has never used a single one of them. At least Timo Boll and Waldner actually used the blades with their name on them, even if they modified them some. This is not really something to get worked up about. (Was there ever such a thing as Genuine Corinthian Leather? Extra points to anyone who can catch that ancient reference. Maybe only Berndt, which is actually quite terrifying to me).
The fact that FZD is blatantly not hiding his use of a non-Stiga blade is pretty interesting. Meanwhile LSW at the last tournament was blatantly using a Stiga blade. |
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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Timo Boll literally plays with a TB ALC to his specified weight. Nothing else going on based on my inspection and his word.
Whats mildly infuriating in my opinion is stuff like FZD and the Infinity VPS or even the Hurricane Long 5 which is pretty significantly different from a genuine W968 in terms of how it feels and plays.
Edited by h0n1g - 11/16/2017 at 11:39am |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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This is one of the few times I've actually read of a pro explicitly stating what equipment he is using. This was in a 2010 interview if Waldner. He doesn't day much about his actual tournament play. Waldner equipment interview The first question about you is often what equipment you use. So, what rubbers do you use these days? Coppa JO Gold on forehand and Coppa JO Platin on backhand. Which blade do you play with? Right now I use Waldner Senso Carbon. How important is the equipment for you? It is naturally very important and I always have good stuff to play with. Do you try out a lot of blades and rubbers to find the best match for you? No, not really. I know what I want and I am happy when I have that. Jörgen Persson tries out a lot more equipment than I do, for example. So you have never been an EJ? No, never. Have you changed a lot of equipment since the speedglue ban? No, not really, but the rubbers themselves have changed a lot. However, I will try out a new faster blade now and I guess that is the closest I am to a change these days. What kind of equipment did you use during the following championships? 1989 1992 1997 2000 I really don’t remember. As I said, I was never really into equipment. |
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liXiao
Premier Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6145 |
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He used Nittaku JO Waldner with Nittaku JO Waldner on both sides in 1997 (but that's besides the point).
Edited by liXiao - 11/16/2017 at 1:08pm |
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Gewo Aruna Hinoki Carbon
Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 53 SuperSelect Yinhe Qing |
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*_strataras_*
Gold Member Joined: 04/19/2010 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1156 |
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OMG my friend piligrim!!! You know that this is advertisement from stiga. If I was a pro, my contract company would say anything it wants of what blade I use! BUT what I really use, is a totally different story! I would take my favorite blade from butterfly or any other company at my desired weight, and then I would give it to my contract company to put my company's handle cups. Of course maybe this is not possible, but someone who fixes blades could do this for me. So these LIES are marketing project of the companies. Pro players cannot say anything if they are payed from them.
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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persson was sued when it was found that he played with clipper with donic handles |
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5307 |
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my dear friend strataras. I don't blame FZD. I blame Stiga. its not marketing project. its lies to customers. reputable company shouldn't do this if doesn't want to lose costumers. next time I just won't buy it |
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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a friend of mine bought a lp rubber from a famous korean chopper and it played very deceptive then I bought the comercial version it was not deceptive at all . BTW the clipper karlsson(played in 2005 wttc) was using is thicker and way faster than the comercial version |
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*_strataras_*
Gold Member Joined: 04/19/2010 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1156 |
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Oh that's what you mean?! Oh ok then, we agree
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ttspirit
Super Member Joined: 08/17/2006 Location: Papua NewGuinea Status: Offline Points: 260 |
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Do you know what, originally I wanted to buy yeras ago that same Boll Spirit ST blade because Butterfly and Timo Boll were claiming he uses Boll Spirit ST. After I have bought it I found out that he was using Boll Spirit ST blade but with different handle thickness I felt kind of sad, angry and cheated at once. If they claim that than I want 100% the same blade with the same ST handle and the same handle dimensions, you know, and nothing less.
Not for nothing is this kind of ST handle shape copied even from the top of the world players, like Karakasevic or Tokic and so on. What the hell! I just wanted to open your eyes. Anyway it is not right to earn money in this way. As you know, this kind of business is sadly used in the big worlds business. Why not earning money truly, I think. I know it would be possible. But this question can be answered by myself. Some could never get enough. |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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I agree with you. Ultimately any type of business deception should not be condoned. The best that one can do is if anyone asks what equipment pro X is using, just let them know that only the pro knows. |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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I also wish to buy the same handle TB ALC as Timo Boll uses but alas can not. I think BTY Japan makes handles to fit their population, not the world. And to change or add another step to make bigger handles in the factory would cost them money they do not want to spend. I tried grip tape, rubber grip, etc... it takes away from the feel of the ball. The best feel for me is still with bare handle. |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5307 |
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bschap
Super Member Joined: 01/07/2013 Status: Offline Points: 394 |
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Thought question...if we had access to try XX's, FZD's, ZJK's, & ML's blades, would we be surprised by how super fast they are? Or how they're not actually that fast at all?! Or some fast and some not fast...
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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I wonder the same.. |
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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The deceptive handle marketing has always bothered me. Totally lame.
The multiple blades with a player's name on them is silly but at least it's transparently silly. Putting a Stiga handle on a BTY blade and claiming you play with a Stiga blade is reprehensible, in my opinion. |
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5307 |
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Fang Bo switched to Viscaria
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2337 |
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Advanced players, with access to the means, have always changed handles when acquiring a new blade. It is only say in the last 20 years, in my experience, that this practice has basically ceased. Edited by Tinykin - 11/19/2017 at 12:27pm |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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darucla
Super Member Joined: 07/30/2017 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Fang Bo and Fan Zhendong apparently swapped blades for a few tournaments. Just to try out other equipment. Now that's weird, in a major event, and makes me wonder about the state of coaching in CNT at present.
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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It is not just a couple of players. This EJ disease has afflicted the whole CNT (barring Ma Long). XX moving to a carbon blade. ZJK trying T05 on FH (!!!). Zhou Yu trying red H3 (not sure which version) on FH. And yes, FB and FZD. It may have to do with a 'testing deadline' directive coming from coaching (that perhaps did not exist during LGL's tenure). I would not be surprised if the fact that they are no longer just steamrolling the Europeans has something to do with the small amount of unfamiliarity they could have with the new equipment.
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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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