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Butterfly ZJK super ZLC

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2013 at 2:56am
Let us wish Crishan luck in Paris so that BTY could produce a Super Crishan Series of blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jatienza930 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2013 at 10:32am
Originally posted by E.ZegnaFan E.ZegnaFan wrote:

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Edited by jatienza930 - 05/15/2013 at 10:33am
BTY MJ FL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2013 at 11:26am
For the price of this blade, it should be sent to me with a logo saying the "Ba'al Super ZLC" with a picture of a Canaanite fertility god on the front blade face, and the same thing in early Phoenician script on the other side. 

Edited by Baal - 05/15/2013 at 11:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pokerpete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2013 at 10:44am
i will sell mine ........ does anyone want the jump on it before i put it up for sale

87g,  flared handle, perfect condition, used 3-4 hours no sweat marks at all grip-tape was used to cover handle

PM me if you have offer


Blade:Tibhar pro force

FH: Tenergy 05FX

BH: bluefire M1


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2015 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

A friend at the club bought one, one of the really serious EJs I rely on to try new stuff without actually buying it myself.  Every club benefits when there a couple of guys like that!  I actually forgot to ask him where he bought it. 

Anyway, he let me hit with it for about twenty minutes.  It has Bluefire M2 on one side and Tenergy 80 on the other -- enough like my current T05-T80 combination that I can judge some things.  This means the entire setup must have cost considerably north of $360 -- the price of three of my Viscarias (assuming one could actually find one these days). Twenty minutes is not enough to say a whole lot, but I can say a little.  The first thing is that unlike the original ZJK blade (which I personally thought was not very good), this new blade immediately has an excellent feel.  It is much better than the two TB-ALCs I bought recently (and sold immediately).  It is infinitely better than the original ZJK.  It is a little faster than my Viscaria, but has a remarkably similar overall feel.  It has the same mixture of of flexibility (rare in composites) and gigantic sweet spot that the Viscaria has.  It is the only other blade I have tried that instantly gives that impression, even more so than TBS or TB-ALC.  This blade was a little lighter than I like personally, a trend I am seeing with Btfly in general (it is getting hard to find a TB-ALC that is 90 grams or greater).  I tend to like my blades a bit heavier than some people -- I prefer 89-92 gram -- so a lot of people will probably like the weight.  I have no idea what the weight range of this blade will eventually turn out to be.  The weight balance was fantastic, unlike the original ZJK, which I thought was awful.  The feel was pretty soft overall, but fast.  I'm not going to say something more or less meaningless like "this is a great looping blade".  Well, it is.  But that is true for pretty much any soft composite blade, and it is intended to be used for that, along with dozens and dozens of other blades out there.  This one has a great balance and feel, kind of like when you get behind the wheel of a BMW and you suddenly realize that the car you were driving before is garbage.  This blade doesn't make my Viscaria feel like garbage.  (It's a BMW too).  Only I can say that it really would not surprise me if ZJK actually ended up using this blade at some point (as opposed to the original one with the stupid blue dragon on it -- possibly the only ALC blade Btfly ever manufactured that seemed like a total failure, at least to me -- and which he never adopted, possibly somewhat to the embarrassment of the manufacturer).    

Having said all that, I'm not going to buy one for myself.  I'm pretty well paid in my job but that doesn't mean I'm going to spend stupidly!  But my guess is that at some point the price will come way down.

Edit.  One other thing, this one had an anatomical handle covered with grip tape, so I a can't say anything about how the flared or straight handles will feel or their size or shape.  It is interesting, though, that Btfly has decided to offer this one with three handle shapes.

Baal, are you sure this review is for super zlc?  I ask b/c you focus so much on ALC comparisons and the price you quote "$360" seems low.  I come up with something like "$530".  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2015 at 8:42pm
Old post.  Price is higher now.  I would also say that having hit several more of those blade since I wrote that review two years ago, I would say that the feel is usually distinctly crisper than that first one I tried the first time.  They are usually faster than a Viscaria.

Also, as yet, my prediction has not yet come to pass.  ZJK still uses a Viscaria.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2015 at 9:03pm
Yeah, guy at Butterfly described it as "really stiff...most people don't like."  Another Q I have (apropos other posts of yours I've seen) is why the super zlc has three handle designs (ST FL AN) that seem to be available everywhere, while the ZJK ALC is basically only available in FL?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2015 at 9:11pm
That seems to be mainly a Btfly NA choice of what they stock.  In Europe it is easier to get non-FL blades.  Why Butterfly NA has made more choices available for the ZJK-super ZLC is a mystery to me.

I have managed to acquire two ST ZJK-ALC blades.  This is until my custom ST Viscarias arrive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 3:11am
Originally posted by bschap bschap wrote:

Yeah, guy at Butterfly described it as "really stiff...most people don't like."

I had tried it very quickly and it's not that stiff, it flexes a bit and feels very crisp. I found the feedback better than ALC, which tend to be on the numb side, and the control is great for a blade this fast. The sweetspot is truly impressive (it's not just marketing nonsense) and it's very powerful. I thought it was an excellent, OFF to OFF+ blade. But too fast and too expensive for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 7:18am
Stiff is not the same as crisp. I don't think it is overly stiff ,but the outer ply seems hard. I know several people who like it, just not me as much as some other blades. Its not bad but I prefer ALC. And price is nuts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 9:15am
For me, the ZJK Super ZLC felt very stiff, low throw, great control and feeling. I think the tabletennisdaily guys tested it and found it to have better control than the Viscaria. But one has to be able to deal with the stiffness. Even the MJ Super ZLC is quite stiff (stiffer than regular MJ).

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


Also, as yet, my prediction has not yet come to pass.  ZJK still uses a Viscaria.

That is not an indication of how good the blade is. My assumption is that most players at that level use what they have been comfortable with for years and are loathe to change.

Take a look at the US Cadets and their ZLC usage:

Jack Wang: TB-ZLC
Kanak Jha: IF-ZLC
Crystal Wang: Mizutani Jun ZLC
Victor Liu: ZJK Super ZLC

That is just because such blades are in vogue during their playing years and their game modifies to best use the properties of such blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 9:39am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

For me, the ZJK Super ZLC felt very stiff, low throw, great control and feeling. I think the tabletennisdaily guys tested it and found it to have better control than the Viscaria. But one has to be able to deal with the stiffness. Even the MJ Super ZLC is quite stiff (stiffer than regular MJ).

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


Also, as yet, my prediction has not yet come to pass.  ZJK still uses a Viscaria.

That is not an indication of how good the blade is. My assumption is that most players at that level use what they have been comfortable with for years and are loathe to change.

Take a look at the US Cadets and their ZLC usage:

Jack Wang: TB-ZLC
Kanak Jha: IF-ZLC
Crystal Wang: Mizutani Jun ZLC
Victor Liu: ZJK Super ZLC

That is just because such blades are in vogue during their playing years and their game modifies to best use the properties of such blades.


Look, at the end of the day, these things are all a question of taste and familiarity.  And of course, my obvious bias is that I have used ALC blades for almost ten years.

I do find it ironic that there are at least four or five blades named after ZJK and that he does not use any of them (he is not alone in that), but that doesn't mean that the ZJK blades or other super ZLC blades are bad.  I didn't say that.  Just that my prediction at the time the blade came out that ended up wrong.  In fact, all of the ones I have tried are quite decent.  I guarantee, though, at the higher levels of the sport, beyond some US cadets, you will find more players using ALC blades than any zylon variant. 

I have a lot of respect for the reviews of the guys at Table Tennis Daily, but their contention that a ZJK Super ZLC has more control than a Viscaria is simply not consistent with my experience, if in fact they said that.  And chances are great that at this point, I have spent more time with both of those blades and have sampled a larger number of each of them than those guys did before they made that review.  There is also the question of "control of WHAT?".   There are so many different shots in table tennis, and people want to try to break complex properties down to a single term?  Control of topspin drives?  Short game?  Serves? Slow spin?   Conversations about control in blades are notorious for people talking past each other because they don't mean the same thing by the word.

One thing I do notice, is that since I wrote that review more than two years ago, there seem to be a lot of used ZJK-super ZLC blades for sale here.  People bought them at premium top dollar price and then decided maybe it was not quite as super as they hoped.  In fact, there almost never a time at the For Sale section here that you can't find one being offered.  I have to say, that has always surprised me because when people shell out that kind of money for a blade, normally, the psychology is that they would want to give it an especially long chance before abandoning it.

The thing that still amazes me is the price of this thing.  Incredible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 9:41am
Also, if there was no such thing as an ALC blade, I would probably be quite happy with a ZLC of some sort, certainly more so than other carbon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 9:49am
Like any very fast blade, for all its qualities, it's demanding and so not everyone can play with it. It's much faster than the average player can control.

I'm actually surprised so many people are in a position to sell it, i.e. that they bought it in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 10:32am
The heart of an ej is mysterious.


"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike

Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 4:38pm
<<Take a look at the US Cadets and their ZLC usage:

Jack Wang: TB-ZLC
Kanak Jha: IF-ZLC
Crystal Wang: Mizutani Jun ZLC
Victor Liu: ZJK Super ZLC>>

Very interesting Slevin.  I guess if you want to have your finger on the pulse of TT "evolution" you should monitor the young players.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snakefish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2015 at 2:01am
Originally posted by bschap bschap wrote:

<<Take a look at the US Cadets and their ZLC usage:

Jack Wang: TB-ZLC
Kanak Jha: IF-ZLC
Crystal Wang: Mizutani Jun ZLC
Victor Liu: ZJK Super ZLC>>

Very interesting Slevin.  I guess if you want to have your finger on the pulse of TT "evolution" you should monitor the young players.  


Are they sponsored by Butterfly ?


Edited by Snakefish - 11/25/2015 at 2:01am
Butterfly TB ALC fl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2015 at 2:04am
Originally posted by Snakefish Snakefish wrote:

Originally posted by bschap bschap wrote:

<<Take a look at the US Cadets and their ZLC usage:

Jack Wang: TB-ZLC
Kanak Jha: IF-ZLC
Crystal Wang: Mizutani Jun ZLC
Victor Liu: ZJK Super ZLC>>

Very interesting Slevin.  I guess if you want to have your finger on the pulse of TT "evolution" you should monitor the young players.  


Are they sponsored by Butterfly ?
Indeed they are.
Alis volat propriis

Gergely
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2015 at 5:21pm
I have another question re this blade.  It seems many many people have tried it, thought it was interesting, or that it could be good, but the absurd price remains a fatal hurdle.  SO, this is a call to elicit feedback from any technically proficient players out there who have used this blade and LOVE it...who think it's the holy grail of blades.  Anyone out there like this?  For once let's please keep criticisms of the price in check.  Defenders/lovers of ZJK Super ZLC please speak up!  Thanks.  :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ttping85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2015 at 6:10pm
The first time I tried the Zjk Szlc I could immediately feel that the feeling was special, great sweet spot and great feedback. The quality of the feeling was like a Viscaria old tag and much better than most recent alc blades. Playing with it is really enjoyable and it's amazing how precise it is but on the other hand because it's still quite fast, stiff and not as soft as alc it is not really forgiving and if you don't hit the Ball perfectly you make a lot of mistakes. But it has much better feeling than ZLC blades. Personally I almost wanted to adopt this one but than prefered the Mizutani Szlc when it came out. But after this I ended up with the Xiom Vega Pro which has the feeling and sweet spot of those Szlc blades, less power but more flex and clearly more control because it's more forgiving.

If anyone wants to buy some Zjk of Mizutani Szlc I am selling mine because I will not go back to them anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2015 at 1:05am
Originally posted by bschap bschap wrote:

<<Take a look at the US Cadets and their ZLC usage:

Jack Wang: TB-ZLC
Kanak Jha: IF-ZLC
Crystal Wang: Mizutani Jun ZLC
Victor Liu: ZJK Super ZLC>>

Very interesting Slevin.  I guess if you want to have your finger on the pulse of TT "evolution" you should monitor the young players.  

Don't know what any of the Canadian juniors use except this guy:

Filip Ilijevski: Mizutani Jun ZLC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2015 at 1:55am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

For me, the ZJK Super ZLC felt very stiff, low throw, great control and feeling. I think the tabletennisdaily guys tested it and found it to have better control than the Viscaria. But one has to be able to deal with the stiffness. Even the MJ Super ZLC is quite stiff (stiffer than regular MJ).

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


Also, as yet, my prediction has not yet come to pass.  ZJK still uses a Viscaria.




That is not an indication of how good the blade is. My assumption is that most players at that level use what they have been comfortable with for years and are loathe to change.

Take a look at the US Cadets and their ZLC usage:

Jack Wang: TB-ZLC
Kanak Jha: IF-ZLC
Crystal Wang: Mizutani Jun ZLC
Victor Liu: ZJK Super ZLC

That is just because such blades are in vogue during their playing years and their game modifies to best use the properties of such blades.


Look, at the end of the day, these things are all a question of taste and familiarity.  And of course, my obvious bias is that I have used ALC blades for almost ten years.

I do find it ironic that there are at least four or five blades named after ZJK and that he does not use any of them (he is not alone in that), but that doesn't mean that the ZJK blades or other super ZLC blades are bad.  I didn't say that.  Just that my prediction at the time the blade came out that ended up wrong.  In fact, all of the ones I have tried are quite decent.  I guarantee, though, at the higher levels of the sport, beyond some US cadets, you will find more players using ALC blades than any zylon variant. 

I have a lot of respect for the reviews of the guys at Table Tennis Daily, but their contention that a ZJK Super ZLC has more control than a Viscaria is simply not consistent with my experience, if in fact they said that.  And chances are great that at this point, I have spent more time with both of those blades and have sampled a larger number of each of them than those guys did before they made that review.  There is also the question of "control of WHAT?".   There are so many different shots in table tennis, and people want to try to break complex properties down to a single term?  Control of topspin drives?  Short game?  Serves? Slow spin?   Conversations about control in blades are notorious for people talking past each other because they don't mean the same thing by the word.

One thing I do notice, is that since I wrote that review more than two years ago, there seem to be a lot of used ZJK-super ZLC blades for sale here.  People bought them at premium top dollar price and then decided maybe it was not quite as super as they hoped.  In fact, there almost never a time at the For Sale section here that you can't find one being offered.  I have to say, that has always surprised me because when people shell out that kind of money for a blade, normally, the psychology is that they would want to give it an especially long chance before abandoning it.

The thing that still amazes me is the price of this thing.  Incredible.







The power of marketing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2016 at 8:00am
Adding to the list of young users: Adriana Diaz (current US open women's champion) - ZJK Super ZLC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2016 at 1:33pm
There is almost always some sort of sZLC blade for sale here. Lots of people trying to recoup some investment. Good for peop.e who want to try iy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2016 at 1:45pm
This ZJK SZLC is a super expensive blade. Not affordable for lotta ppl. If anyone ever comes across/knows some one trying to unload any of these "rare beauty". Grab it as soon as possible. Awhile back I saw an used one on sale for 200 USD shipped to anywhere....
ZJK is not using any of these ZJK models (incl. the Blue Dragon version). These might be discontinued in the future..who knows.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2016 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Adding to the list of young users: Adriana Diaz (current US open women's champion) - ZJK Super ZLC


You gotta highlight the players that like the blade not the ones that play with szlc cos they get paid for it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2016 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Adding to the list of young users: Adriana Diaz (current US open women's champion) - ZJK Super ZLC


You gotta highlight the players that like the blade not the ones that play with szlc cos they get paid for it

I have talked to 2 kid and 1 adult national team members in my area who are sponsored by BTY - they are free to choose any BTY blade (ALC, ZLC or all-wood). How do you know that Adriana was forced to play with the SZLC blade only for sponsorship?

Either ways, this topic is now pretty low in my interest scale.


Edited by slevin - 12/20/2016 at 4:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2016 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Adding to the list of young users: Adriana Diaz (current US open women's champion) - ZJK Super ZLC


You gotta highlight the players that like the blade not the ones that play with szlc cos they get paid for it

Lmao, Butterfly doesn't force a blade on any of their sponsored players, they can choose whatever you want. I've seen you say this before though so it's pretty clear you're just an extreme case of one of those anti-Butterfly people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2016 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Adding to the list of young users: Adriana Diaz (current US open women's champion) - ZJK Super ZLC


You gotta highlight the players that like the blade not the ones that play with szlc cos they get paid for it


Lmao, Butterfly doesn't force a blade on any of their sponsored players, they can choose whatever you want. I've seen you say this before though so it's pretty clear you're just an extreme case of one of those anti-Butterfly people.

Nah, bbkon just writes a lot of stuff that is hard to make sense of. This is just another example.

Edited by NextLevel - 12/20/2016 at 5:12pm
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2016 at 6:29pm
Add the following info about Americas juniors according to the Butterfly website:

Nikhil Kumar: ZJK ZLC
Crystal Wang: ZJK ZLC
Yadira Silva: IF-ZLC

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