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GMan4911 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02/20/2015 at 3:09am
Received the Yinhe T-11+ last week and have played with it a couple sessions so far.  The weight was 72gr without rubber and 172gr with a sheet of H3 commercial (untuned), a sheet of Sanwei T88-I, and foam edge tape.  My other setup is a Yinhe T-7 with H3 on both sides.  I play close to the table with that setup.  With the T-11+, it's quite a bit faster so I'm playing a step or two back from the table.  So far, the results are promising.  I'll post more after I get a few more sessions in.
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Big Thank to Bogeyhunter. He got me a loan arrangement of Nexy Qabod. Blade is very nice and well made. I could not wait to try it this weekend.

Edited by aroonkl - 01/31/2015 at 12:11am
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Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:

Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:


go with stiga, blade size smaller than others. i'm using intensity nct now, is a good one. Light and powerful.

I have Rosewood V 84g and VPS around 86 g. I don't think head is small.
They are also not that light.


try put your butterfly or DHS blade old rubber to stiga blade, you will see the difference. Rosewood V 84g and VPS around 86 g. very light already, any 5 ply blade less than 85g I try so far has no power.

I have intensity + H3 + T80 total 177 g.

I dug out Rosewood V from closet. You are right. Head is smaller than DHS. It was actually 81g. I put on H3 & T05fx. Balance is good and lighter. One down side, could I have the faster blade with more elastic feeling ?

Edited by aroonkl - 01/31/2015 at 2:50am
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Originally posted by GMan4911 GMan4911 wrote:


Ok, I get it - triceps tendonitis.  The treatment for that should be similar to tennis elbow - massaging, stretching, and strengthening the triceps instead of the forearm muscles.  Try this exercise.  There are others on youtube you can try.



GMan4911, Thanks for the link. I have been sometime doing alike this massage. I did not use the ball but use a Liquor bottle knob.   

Edited by aroonkl - 01/31/2015 at 2:50am
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Kanaph is light yet fast and powerful. Goes well with
h3
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Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Originally posted by GMan4911 GMan4911 wrote:

Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

I sometime do that too. My tennis elbow, the outside of forearm, is not bad. The one I have now is under forearm near the tip of elbow. Any exercise for this.

I'm not sure I understand.  If the pain is on the outside elbow, it's called tennis elbow.  If it's on the inside of the elbow, it's called golfer's elbow. 

It is the tendon that attach to the elbow from Tricep. 

tricep injury is likely to occur when the tricep muscle is placed ...


Ok, I get it - triceps tendonitis.  The treatment for that should be similar to tennis elbow - massaging, stretching, and strengthening the triceps instead of the forearm muscles.  Try this exercise.  There are others on youtube you can try.
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Originally posted by GMan4911 GMan4911 wrote:

Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

I sometime do that too. My tennis elbow, the outside of forearm, is not bad. The one I have now is under forearm near the tip of elbow. Any exercise for this.

I'm not sure I understand.  If the pain is on the outside elbow, it's called tennis elbow.  If it's on the inside of the elbow, it's called golfer's elbow. 

It is the tendon that attach to the elbow from Tricep. 

tricep injury is likely to occur when the tricep muscle is placed ...


Edited by aroonkl - 01/30/2015 at 4:34am
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Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

With lighter rubbers, you probably don't swing as hard. Either that or you swing with your arm less. When I change, I always overswing. You may be straightening the arm too much on your BH loop.
Ha..Ha.. I'm pretty sure, with the lighter ones,  I swing harder. 
I think  body conditions are different. I always have problem with this elbow. Even while I stopped tt for 10 years, I shew up times to times when I carried a lot of tires or used pliers at work. Or when I renovated my store, I used hammers a lot and this elbow hurt like crazy.



Edited by aroonkl - 01/30/2015 at 4:40am
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Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

I sometime do that too. My tennis elbow, the outside of forearm, is not bad. The one I have now is under forearm near the tip of elbow. Any exercise for this.

I'm not sure I understand.  If the pain is on the outside elbow, it's called tennis elbow.  If it's on the inside of the elbow, it's called golfer's elbow. 



There are exercises for golfer's elbow too.
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With lighter rubbers, you probably don't swing as hard. Either that or you swing with your arm less. When I change, I always overswing. You may be straightening the arm too much on your BH loop.

Edited by NextLevel - 01/29/2015 at 11:12pm
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Originally posted by GMan4911 GMan4911 wrote:

Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Yes it is tennis elbow.


I had tennis elbow last year and after reading this article http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/phys-ed-an-easy-fix-for-tennis-elbow/ I got myself a rubber bar and did the recommended exercises.  My tennis elbow was cured in about 10 weeks.





I sometime do that too. My tennis elbow, the outside of forearm, is not bad. The one I have now is under forearm near the tip of elbow. Any exercise for this.
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Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Then add some grip tape for good measure, stop doing crazy strokes for a week or two while your body adjusts to the weight and most importantly, stop EJIng so much across such different blades!

I tried grip tapes. Could not stand it when shifting grip for BH in table loops. It seems sticky and in the way somehow.

== stop EJIng so much across such different blades! ==

, I thought we here had the same sickness.


Which is why I can diagnose the problem having seen how you play.  My current set up is 194g or so, but it is weighted towards the handle because of the grip tape, and the more I slow down and use it, the less elbow pain I have.  The point of a heavier setup is that you shouldn't be swinging hard with your arm, all other things being equal.  If you want to do that, then you have to use something lighter.  But your body needs time to adjust to the new swing speed regardless, but the way you change so often, you are probably swinging hard with blades of different weights and balances and that is going to cause you to swing too fast and swing too slow and your arm will not know how to adjust to all the changes going on quickly enough to avoid elbow injury.


==The point of a heavier setup is that you shouldn't be swinging hard with your arm==
It would apply to SPEED of the out-going balls. But for spin, light or heavy blade, it normally still has to rub at same speed to generate equally spin.

My elbow never hurt when I step down the weight. Ask me how I know. (I talked to it and it talked back. ) Last year it hurt badly, I played with 2 light rubbers and symptom disappeared.

Edited by aroonkl - 01/29/2015 at 10:33pm
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Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Yes it is tennis elbow.


I had tennis elbow last year and after reading this article http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/phys-ed-an-easy-fix-for-tennis-elbow/ I got myself a rubber bar and did the recommended exercises.  My tennis elbow was cured in about 10 weeks.
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Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Then add some grip tape for good measure, stop doing crazy strokes for a week or two while your body adjusts to the weight and most importantly, stop EJIng so much across such different blades!

I tried grip tapes. Could not stand it when shifting grip for BH in table loops. It seems sticky and in the way somehow.

== stop EJIng so much across such different blades! ==

, I thought we here had the same sickness.

Which is why I can diagnose the problem having seen how you play.  My current set up is 194g or so, but it is weighted towards the handle because of the grip tape, and the more I slow down and use it, the less elbow pain I have.  The point of a heavier setup is that you shouldn't be swinging hard with your arm, all other things being equal.  If you want to do that, then you have to use something lighter.  But your body needs time to adjust to the new swing speed regardless, but the way you change so often, you are probably swinging hard with blades of different weights and balances and that is going to cause you to swing too fast and swing too slow and your arm will not know how to adjust to all the changes going on quickly enough to avoid elbow injury.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Then add some grip tape for good measure, stop doing crazy strokes for a week or two while your body adjusts to the weight and most importantly, stop EJIng so much across such different blades!

I tried grip tapes. Could not stand it when shifting grip for BH in table loops. It seems sticky and in the way somehow.

== stop EJIng so much across such different blades! ==

, I thought we here had the same sickness.
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Originally posted by bogeyhunter bogeyhunter wrote:

aroonkl,

This's your lucky day.
There are 5 NEXY blades in Tampa/Clearwater area now for NEXY team/sponsored players to test/try.
Give them a chance....one of them gotta fit your need.
ask Gary Fraiman.


Thank you for Offering. That is nice. What do you have for them to test here?   
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Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Aroonkl:

+1 on what NL said.

Additionally: I wouldn't recommend a ZLC blade with H3 unless you're using one of the softer sponged H3s.

<span style="line-height: 11.1999998092651px;">The reason why you found the Barwell Fleet to be painful is that it is head-heavy due to it's walnut outers.</span>

I'd recommend going back to one of the blades you've played around with: the ZJK-ALC. First, H3 goes real well with the BTY ALC blades. Second, the ZJK-ALC has a longer and wider handle than the Viscaria or TB-ALC and hence has better blade balance (it is 157x150 as well). Select one around the 84g range and you'll be good to do!



Is ZJ ALC head same size as TB ALC? I believe TB-ALC is smaller than Vis. (too bad, I sold it.)
I play with Vis and ZJ ALC. Both 85-6 g, ZJ is little bit head lighter but not much. May be have to try it again.
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Originally posted by GMan4911 GMan4911 wrote:

Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

For combo Balsa/H3, I could give some comment cause I tried them before.
Firewall+/Barricade/TSP Balsa. They don't do well with H3. It is also slow. It seems like kick from Balsa could not shine though hard Chinese rubber. It has some spin but not close to Koto family pair with H3 either. But when I put Donic Baracuda on Balsa, they rocked.

Aren't the first two considered ALL/ALL+?  Don't know about the TSP.  I would not consider anything less than OFF- for H3.

Currently using a Yinhe T-7 with H3, probably too heavy for you @ 89 gr, looking to try something with a little more speed and a little bit lighter so I ordered a Yinhe T-11+, a balsa carbon blade.  It was on sale at aliexpress for $18.  Should be here in a couple weeks.

If your elbow problem is tennis elbow, it can be fixed.

Firewall+ is thick Balsa blade. Around 10mm Balsa core. If paired with modern rubbers, it is lot faster than Vis.
Try Balsa carbon and let us know if it is good with H3. I doubt it.

Yes it is tennis elbow.
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Then add some grip tape for good measure, stop doing crazy strokes for a week or two while your body adjusts to the weight and most importantly, stop EJIng so much across such different blades!
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Aroonkl:

+1 on what NL said.

Additionally: I wouldn't recommend a ZLC blade with H3 unless you're using one of the softer sponged H3s.

The reason why you found the Barwell Fleet to be painful is that it is head-heavy due to it's walnut outers.

I'd recommend going back to one of the blades you've played around with: the ZJK-ALC. First, H3 goes real well with the BTY ALC blades. Second, the ZJK-ALC has a longer and wider handle than the Viscaria or TB-ALC and hence has better blade balance (it is 157x150 as well). Select one around the 84g range and you'll be good to do!
Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787
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Heavier rackets by themselves, except in extreme weight increase scenarios, rarely cause injuries. The real issues tend to be racket balance, old age, arm centric technique, straight arm finishes of strokes and finally, changing rackets and swinging as hard without letting your arm and body adjust.

Edited by NextLevel - 01/28/2015 at 9:21pm
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

For combo Balsa/H3, I could give some comment cause I tried them before.
Firewall+/Barricade/TSP Balsa. They don't do well with H3. It is also slow. It seems like kick from Balsa could not shine though hard Chinese rubber. It has some spin but not close to Koto family pair with H3 either. But when I put Donic Baracuda on Balsa, they rocked.

Aren't the first two considered ALL/ALL+?  Don't know about the TSP.  I would not consider anything less than OFF- for H3.

Currently using a Yinhe T-7 with H3, probably too heavy for you @ 89 gr, looking to try something with a little more speed and a little bit lighter so I ordered a Yinhe T-11+, a balsa carbon blade.  It was on sale at aliexpress for $18.  Should be here in a couple weeks.

If your elbow problem is tennis elbow, it can be fixed.
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aroonkl,

This's your lucky day.
There are 5 NEXY blades in Tampa/Clearwater area now for NEXY team/sponsored players to test/try.
Give them a chance....one of them gotta fit your need.
ask Gary Fraiman.


Edited by bogeyhunter - 01/28/2015 at 5:34pm
www.NexyUSA.com
We also carries Sauer & Tröger.
Lissom O+EASY P 1mm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo
https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0
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https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo
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Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:


go with stiga, blade size smaller than others. i'm using intensity nct now, is a good one. Light and powerful.

I have Rosewood V 84g and VPS around 86 g. I don't think head is small.
They are also not that light.


try put your butterfly or DHS blade old rubber to stiga blade, you will see the difference. Rosewood V 84g and VPS around 86 g. very light already, any 5 ply blade less than 85g I try so far has no power.

I have intensity + H3 + T80 total 177 g.
Innerforce-ZLC FL + H3 + T80
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Originally posted by tt-panopticum tt-panopticum wrote:

If I got your description right, I'd suggest two things:
- one part of the problem might be related to the size/shape of the blade
- the other part could be more weight/speed related

As bh tends to be more wrist active stroke, usually larger(longer) head shape could result in more stress, what you should avoid. Also handle/neck  shape is importantas some handle shaes tend to result in a lower or higher grip.
My own experience with ML-5 was exactly this, it felt quite "long", resulting in very good acceleration, but also demanding/stressfull  for wrist action.

Among other good suggestions, I'd throw in Reygundo, small head and narrow neck part - usually very light but still enough speed. Hinoki top ply isn't everybody's taste, but I like it a lot in combination with H3. Reygundo is similar to Kong Linghui Special - just a smaller head, lighter overall (usually below 80gr.) a bit harder feeling and good speed.

I'd generally go for not too slow combo, as I'd expect this to be less stress for your ellbow...

Best regards

I think you nailed it. My main blade is DHS TG-825 95g. I also have Barewell Fleet at 85g. I was comparing them side by side. With same rubbers, same cut sizes, I would say that I feel BF even at lighter weight loaded more on my elbow.

Next question, what blades has little bit small head and/may be high grip also play well with H3.

Hinoki would not do it with H3. I tried many. It was the dream combo with Sriver when I was a kid.

Edited by aroonkl - 01/28/2015 at 3:56am
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Originally posted by rusttt rusttt wrote:

Yo, OP, since you have the ZXI, you could trim it a couple of mm in length and see if that helps your elbow.  If that feels better you could get the VE, repeat the sanding, and gain some control and spin vs. the ZXI.

I trimmed 4-5 blades included my favorite blade I played 15 years ago. I did sand little by little but still overdid it. I never achieve ideal result. They usually feel unbalance not solid.
I'm still mad at myself every time I hold my old main blade.

I have 2 Tibhar blades, Head are smaller than the others brand but not good feeling with H3. The balance is good though.    

Edited by aroonkl - 01/27/2015 at 11:25pm
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Originally posted by rusttt rusttt wrote:

I think you might like the Donic World Champion 89 Appelgren all+.  Don't let the speed rating put you off, you can dial up the speed when you want it. Mine is 77g. 

I wouldn't be surprised if you could find the faster Waldner version in the low eighties if you want the extra horsepower.  I asked for a heavy one and got it around 88g.

If you like the koto outer feel then the Xiom Vega Euro can be found in the low eighties (mine is 82).

I have Xiom Vega Euro 84g. It plays well but with H3, it is nowhere near light weight. I actually feel combo heavier than ML-5 or ZXIs. I should be as NextLevel said.
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Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:


go with stiga, blade size smaller than others. i'm using intensity nct now, is a good one. Light and powerful.

I have Rosewood V 84g and VPS around 86 g. I don't think head is small.
They are also not that light.
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Points: 283 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bayttplayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2015 at 1:12pm
go with stiga, blade size smaller than others. i'm using intensity nct now, is a good one. Light and powerful.
Innerforce-ZLC FL + H3 + T80
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Joined: 03/16/2014
Location: Danbury, CT
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Points: 112 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusttt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2015 at 10:16am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The Vega Euro has a slightly larger head that is why I would not encourage it purely based on weight. I considered the Rossi Emotion as well, but height mot find it powerful enough.
Compared to the ML5 which runs ~100g, a savings of close to 20g is pretty significant.  

If the real issue is size, well that's easy to change if he otherwise likes the blade.  Sanding is easy enough.  I wouldn't get hung up over a mm or 2 if 30 minutes of sanding could fix the issue.

Yo, OP, since you have the ZXI, you could trim it a couple of mm in length and see if that helps your elbow.  If that feels better you could get the VE, repeat the sanding, and gain some control and spin vs. the ZXI.
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