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G40+ versus Nittaku Premium 40+ |
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
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XGAE on all 3 boxes
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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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That's what I was afraid of. Made in July of this year. Can you mention what you didn't like? Is the bounce still too low? Do they play like previous seamed balls?
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
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The bounce is way too low. Just like the old butterfly balls. I haven't played with the yet but will try out tomorrow.
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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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hey, did you check your XSF bulk balls for lemons?
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
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Didn't find any lemons victor
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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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I had a small sample size for these, but here is what I am seeing for the few balls I had available to test. Don't have any of the new Butterfly to test with yet.
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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I played two hours with the new BTY ball today, and I have to say I LOVE IT.
Some adjustments to strokes will be necessary though. Due perhaps to the fact that it is smoother, the ball doesn't 'bite' into the rubber like the previous BTY ball. As a result, the throw is slightly lower than I have come to expect. The usual CRUSH-shot will now hit the top of the net and bounce out. Also, on opening loop, it behaves like the old celluloid ball - i like that. In rally the ball is a pleasure to trace with your eyes - it flies so straight!! But like the crush-shot, i have to loop-counterloop with a little more open paddle and more forward instead of with an angle and brushing up. Slight changes, due to the lack of bite on contact. I like the sound. Higher pitch TOK TOK, very clean and vibrant, not muffled like NP. I will be buying more of this ball because my friends liked it too.
Edited by Victor_the_cleaner - 11/24/2015 at 11:21pm |
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
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I like the new G40+ BTY balls better than the nittaku prems. I still like the XSF balls the best and now the new Joola Flash as they are supposed to be XSF balls.
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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Yes plenty of good choices out there for acceptable plastic balls now. Perhaps now we can pressure tournament directors to not use the bad ones.
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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The flight of the ball is fantastic though. Everybody loves it. IT IS SO STABLE. Like an optically tracked, wire guided missile. Very easy to loop away from the table. I think this ball can increase the length of the rally by itself.
I feel i have better penetration with this ball. It retains more power after 10 feet. The vibration i feel in my hand on contact is much closer to the celluloid ball. The noise bothered some people but I like it. I broke my first ball though, and it was somewhat prematurely. It was exactly 2hr 30 mins of continuous play and it broke without hitting edge or something. I hope that's not average longevity.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I think a G40 breaking in 2 hours is just bad luck.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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Having played with them a bit more, I can say they are durable and fast. They tend to dent and deteriorate over time. Occasional skidding does occur but cell balls did too so that I won't focus too heavily on yet
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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I finally played more extensively with the XSF ball and saw what all the fuss is about.
The ball is quite different than the G40+, that is unfortunate because both are excellent but switching between them is not seamless. They bite differently and fly differently. The 'bite' on contact makes a big difference because i believe it lets you lift and carry the ball a little. The bite of most plastic balls let's you just crush a ball that looks really low, simply because you lift it a little. But later the rough surface that gives you the bite bites the air, and the ball dramatically slows down after 10 feet. The G40 doesn't have a good bite, so i can't crush the low ones, but when I drive the highers ones the ball has better penetration than a ball with a bite, because it does not slow down so much. It is very easy to trace with eyes in long distance rallies as if flies very straight and retains power. The problem with the G40+ ball is... the price of XSF. I bought 48 balls from paddle palace yesterday for 75 cents per ball, shipped. There are no good deals on BTY, any product, any time. One ball will cost you ~ 3 dollars. I can't even say it is superior overall than XSF, that depends on your preference for style of play. The balls are just different. For those who like med and long distance rallies i can recommend the Bty ball, for close to table XSF is easier and cheaper.
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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i think the differences between celluloid balls were negligible, nondefective balls of all manufacturers played about the same. That is when they were same weight and perfectly round.
Now you get same weight, perfectly round balls from XSF, G40+, NP40+, DHS and they all play differently. That's not a problem for recreational player like me but for the serious player this constant adjusting will be annoying.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Excellent description of both balls, and the dilemma of having two excellent but very different types of balls. It takes some time to transition from one to the other. NP40 is yet a third. I am convinced the surface roughness affects ball flight. |
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rick_ys_ho
Super Member Joined: 08/18/2009 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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I have not played BTY balls, so I can't comment on that. But I agree with XSF part of the statement from durability perspective. I can't stand the fact that during long distance rallies your big swing can break XSF balls easily if being hit by blade edge, no matter how new the ball is. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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Played the Butterfly NA Teams where the G40+ ball was used. I don't remember breaking a ball during any of my matches. The floor was an indoor tennis court turf and that might have affected the bounce and tempo as well. I don't think I ever fully adjusted though I did play okay. The ball skidding issue happened against the same player it happened against prior so I have go assume he can produce a spin that I am unfamiliar with.
It felt good to play a major tournament and just drive 15 minutes home. Hope I can experience that again. And these balls Butterldy were infinitely better than the other Butterfly Chinese seamed monstrosity so I accept them. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I have played with the G40+ on two kinds of tables now. They were better on relatively new Butterfly tables, whereas the sliding was more apparent on older Tibhar Smash 28 tables which have slightly smoother surface. This should probably not be too surprising but anyway, that's how it seems to me. These tables are both very good, just a bit different.
Again, my dominant impression from the start and continuing is that the G40+ are fast! I haven't been able to play in a week. Had an injury and travel. |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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i have not experienced any sliding yet, though i've only played on good tables.
I have a suspicion something else may be responsible for the 'sliding' reports. When does the sliding occur? During what kind of shot? Unless its a chop, i wouldn't blame the ball. During topspin the ball is moving forward and spinning forward and i don't think sliding can occur without some extreme circumstances. Yes, the G40 balls are fast. I would call them powerful, as they retain more energy after 10-15 feet of travel than any other ball. The other thing they retain is their constant trajectory. THey will keep a small bend very far, while the old Bty ball just hits the brakes after 10-15 feet and dives down.
Edited by Victor_the_cleaner - 11/30/2015 at 3:47pm |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Yes, G40+ comes out farthest and seems very straight. The next in order for this property is NP40+ (but slightly lower initially, seems to arc a bit more on average). All the other plastic balls tend to sink faster, even XSF which has an initially high bounce.
I notice sliding sometimes on hard loop drives, and any sort of flat hit. Not so much when new. Definitely after 90 minutes of use. |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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I had this happen to us twice today and remembered your post. I never paid attention to this before because we didn't have XSF balls. The ball is otherwise durable, but hitting it with the edge of the racket appears to be fatal even to a brand new ball. We cracked two last night, back to back. It wasn't really a crack. The ball had like a piece missing where it hit the edge, but the rest of the ball was still very and kind of playable. This material needs to be a little more elastic, or maybe it is too thin, i don't know, but this kind of damage I have never seen before. Good thing it only happens when you hit edge...
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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The new version of DHS balls arrived today. They were made in October 2015, and the claim is that they have changed their plastic formula.
I will try to hit with them tomorrow. I very much hope they are better than what they had before. Edit: Bounce test I just performed did not yield a happy outcome. These new ones have the exact same bounce height as a Joola 40+ ball manufactured in June of 2014 (a ball manufactured by DHS)! So even with their touted new material, they have not solved the problem of their very low bounce, and that is one of the things that people dislike the most about them. I don't know if they will pass the ITTF test for bounce height, but it is quite likely that they will fail the "player choice" test based just on this. I don't think I will be able to evaluate their durability if they play horribly because I won't be able to bring myself to play with them long enough. Their weight is better and the ones I have seem reasonably round. So that is better. But the bottom lines is that these are afflicted with the same issue Acuda Dave found with some relatively recent Joola seamed 40+. Edit 2. Played with them for an hour tonight. They are pretty much terrible, no different in terms of how they play than previous Chinese seamed balls. Low bounce, doesn't come out, dips excessively in the air, slow ball flight, very soft ball, some very weird low bounces. I see no improvement in playability than the Joola and DHS seamed 40+ balls that were made in June of 2014 except they do seem a bit rounder. In short, I beg tournament and league directors, please don't use these crappy balls!!!! After an hour I had seen enough, pulled out an NP40+ ball, and experienced instant relief! |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Sigh. Into the bin with them.
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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STILL WAITING FOR THE BETTER...
I am a criss_cross devouted blocker. I love the tempered DHS 40+ ball, not so swift, not so bouncy. I feel myself very much like a King Superior with the new DHS plastic. CrissCross deadly ball directions over the table`s sideline. Yet, with all those playing benefits, I am not going to use the plastic ball till some later day that the selling price having dropped down to a better reasonable pricetag, better comparable with the celluloid current price, something like $0.5 a ball. Prudence first. I am not a moneywaster anyway. Good Luck/ |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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For UK peeps, G40+ are in stock at TeesSport, and will be used at the Nottingham Grand Prix at the end of January.
My box of 3 turned up this morning. Weights are 2.71, 2.73, 2.73 on my cheapo digital scales. All three are very round and fairly hard (NP40+ feel harder). Quick bounce test on the table shows that they bounce higher than XSF, DHS, DF, NP and cell. Nothing surprising here, just confirms what others have said. Can't find a production code on the box, so I wonder if this box of 3 was part of a bigger box and TeesSport split it up. Will have to wait until next week to try them out.
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