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Xu Xin lifting backspin ??? |
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winterdrops
Super Member Joined: 06/06/2012 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Posted: 05/19/2016 at 6:55pm |
Hi guys,
Could anybody translate what Lui Guilang says to Xu Xin about lifting backspin balls? I am really shocked about how a pro player who has been world number 1 for a few times is getting instructions about a basic stroke? Lui Guilang must be saying very important things most of us don't pay attention. Best regards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=helMPXG0BYs
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Stiga Infinity
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ttTurkey
Silver Member Joined: 09/07/2010 Status: Offline Points: 516 |
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No idea what he was saying, but the "who's your daddy?" stare at 1:04 was kinda funny.
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notfound123
Gold Member Joined: 01/18/2008 Location: MD, USA Status: Offline Points: 1026 |
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Wow...just wow.. unbelievable spin when LGL loops toward the camera
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winterdrops
Super Member Joined: 06/06/2012 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Ha haha, very good approach :)
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Stiga Infinity
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mjamja
Platinum Member Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2895 |
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My best guess: LGL - "I know you are a Timo Boll fan but you are on the CNT. Now quit spinning up that short push at the edge of the table and drive that sucker like a real man, like me." XX - "But what if I tear my rubber on the table. You know how hard it is to get real National rubbers with so many fakes out there. And I like to spin it up so I have lots of time to move back way over and cover the whole table with my Fh". LGL - "Keep spinning it up like that and you can cover all the toilets on the 8th floor with that Fh" Mark |
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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First of all, I did not hear what he was saying. However, I believe I know what he told XX because my coach told me the same idea. It is a "new" method on lifting the backspin. You lift the ball @ the spin's "weaker position". For instance, a weaker position of an underspin is on the side. Unlike the old way (counter the heavy spin by increasing your brush), you try to lift (brush-hit) the ball on the side where the spin is weak and the hitting surface is large.
Watch he showed xx the hand around 5:24 and his demo around 1:00 Edited by Egghead - 05/20/2016 at 1:59am |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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It is difficult to make out the conversation due to the background noise but LGL is telling XX to aim for an optimal point. The first one he said something about his body being a bit high and lower would be better. The second one is a very good one. Couldn't make out the fourth one. The fifth one he told him not to do that shoulder thing and should instead pivot more and use more forearm. The issue with XX is that his point is too late(letting ball fall too far before impact.)
Edited by zeio - 05/19/2016 at 9:31pm |
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ronakvyas86
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Yasaka Goiabao 5 CPEN, Donic Baracuda MAX FH & RPB
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Tassie52
Gold Member Joined: 10/09/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1318 |
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LGL crushes forehand flick. "C'mon, XX. It's not that hard."
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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That guy in the yellow t-shirt - he has flaws in his looping technique against underspin. Coach has to explain him such a basic move. He made quite a few mistakes initially.
I say he's USATT 1600.1300 in the Bay Area. Shall get killed against choppers in tournaments. |
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NextLevel
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That's the funniest thing about the video - this is the best chopper killer in the world being told that his backspin looping technique can be improved...
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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gekogark1212
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To be fair I think XX lacks the absolute chopper crushing abilities of previous generation penholders like Ma Lin and Wang Hao. XX just plays like a shakehander in that regard.
Side note: In this day and age I can no longer shorten Ma Lin to just ML haha |
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(='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake, (")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake. |
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topspinoccr
Super Member Joined: 07/23/2014 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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What LGL told Xu Xin:
1. wait until the backspin ball is safe and dropping 2. opponent expects a slow spinny loop and prepares to counter it 3. use waist, forearm and wrist to do a safe fast loop 4. stay low; do not move forward with the loop
Edited by topspinoccr - 05/20/2016 at 1:31am |
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Snakefish
Silver Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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Why didn't LGL tell XX about this technique 5 years ago ? OR did LGL just noticed XX is a penholder |
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Krantz
Super Member Joined: 05/14/2009 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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Nice presentation by LGL. It looks to me than LGL shows completely different stroke for dealing with backspin balls, while XX is "just" applying his usual, universal loop, which can cover pretty big variations of incoming spin, but doesn't look so effective against backspin specifically.
Edited by Krantz - 05/20/2016 at 4:52am |
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winterdrops
Super Member Joined: 06/06/2012 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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I guess, LGL is explaining very important tip about shoulder to lift the ball.
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Stiga Infinity
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ttTurkey
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I thought this looked like an over the table technique for dealing with short pushes that had drifted fractionally long, as opposed to a loop against chop.
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2338 |
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Good link. Thanks for posting. I especially like how LGL keeps his eye on the student and not try to return the ball. |
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winterdrops
Super Member Joined: 06/06/2012 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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No I don't think whole video is about flicks over the table. Obviously in the first part of the video LGL is explaining something about topspin.
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Stiga Infinity
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ttTurkey
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I thought it looked like a fast loop kill technique off shorter balls usually associated with loop kills (LGL looked like he was deliberately pushing ahort)
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perniciousnc
Super Member Joined: 07/07/2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 167 |
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LGL is so dam awesome. He couldn't be replaced.
The main lesson is that XX is not using his WRIST (LGL was demonstrating that if he had, he could lift back spin, and do forehand flip easily). WH uses his wrist to crush defenders very well I remember. 1) to let the ball drop (so that the ball is less spiny) 2) to use the wrist more (which allows him to brush the ball for a longer time) |
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GTeaLatte
Member Joined: 02/20/2016 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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From what few phrases i caught, lgl is instructing xx on a type of stroke for balls close to the table that xx would normally slow brush loop.
The stroke is like a mix of a loop and a flick. You start your stroke like you would a brush loop, but a little more upright. Then on contact with the ball you use a small fh flick motion. This stroke will definetly catch many opponents offf if xx is able to master it, as the placement is rather unpredictable by the reciever. (Lgl also tells xx to stop being a sissy and dont be afraid to play agressive at the table) Edited by GTeaLatte - 05/20/2016 at 9:15am |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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I never like LGL's style or game or strokes, ugly flathitting mostly..
But I have to admit, in this video I myself found his stroke much better and cleaner than that of XX. XX couldn't get the ball at right time and with right angle and had to lift and loop. LGL just drove it straight and clean forward. Old dog still got stuff..
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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That individualistic thinking is what holds back the other teams.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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The Observer
Super Member Joined: 04/10/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 455 |
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In the first part, LGL was telling XX that the twisting of the shoulder should be part of power generation and shouldn't happen before contacting the ball, then he said the timing needs to be right when it is safe to power the ball, last he said the wrist can be used to add control and power and demonstrated with flipping. In my opinion, it is easier for a shorter player like LGL to do it, but XX does look a bit slow to me, again mostly due to his size. Edit: LGL also said to lower the body more...
Edited by The Observer - 05/20/2016 at 12:32pm |
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remmpfremm
Member Joined: 04/05/2004 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Regarding Ma Lin's absolute chopper crushing ability - must have been temporarily out of order in
the 2003 world championship, when he encountered Joo See Hyuk (remember how Ma Lin let his racket fly after the match?). Regarding the very interesting Liu Guoliang/ Xu Xin video (thanks!), I do not understand Chinese, but here is what I see: In the first part, the training session seems to focus on slightly longer returns, and one point that Liu Guolinag emphasizes is the difference between a) stronger body turn and corresponding inward arm swing (as in the fast, parallel return to Xu Xin's backhand at 1:04), and b) the technique where the arm is `stopped outside' more, leading to a different direction (to Xu Xin's forehand in this case, as left-hander). In the second part, it seems to be more about flicking of shorter returns, but again with surprising direction changes, and certainly some explanation about how to accelerate the short balls also with relativeley closed racket, not `lifting' too much. Interesting also: For obvious reasons of politeness and functionality, Xu Xin plays his returns relatively `harmless' , not, for example, pushing aggressively, so Liu Guoliang can demonstrate properly - that I like in particular. |
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berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
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LGL to XX:
Don't be such a sissy; Your loop's way too prissy. Stay close to the table; That is, if you're able. Now do what I tell you Or else I'll expel you. If you won't agree with me There's always the Beijing KFC. |
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bmann1942
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MLfan
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Guys, it's really simple. Looping half-long backspins over the table is not the same as dealing with choppers...Xu Xin, despite his incredible looping ability, lacks the ability to kill low, half-long backspins. Ma Lin's half-long backspin loop-kills, if you remember, were the best, because he could use his wrist and shoulder so well when the incoming balls were too short for full body energy transfer. LGL is trying to teach Xu Xin the technique. When Xu Xin encounters these balls, he often waits longer for the ball to drop and loops a slow ball. LGL wants him to be able to loop it like Ma Lin with the deceptive movements to earn the point right away.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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You've nailed it. Xu Xin just waits too long with a large backswing, and misses the perfect opportunity to attack at the highest point (or even slightly before that). LGL seems to be telling him to shorten the stroke, use more body rotation and there was something about using the shoulder for more power, and the wrist action to counter backspin effectively. LGL's loopkills still look so good! |
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IanMcg
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2011 Location: Somehere Status: Offline Points: 1151 |
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Okay, but this doesn't help me at all. Do you actually know what LGL is saying?
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