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What is the key to utilising a Chinese rubber well |
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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Posted: 06/08/2017 at 10:04pm |
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Is it the acceleration or the actual size of your stroke?
I have plenty of acceleration but I've been told not to have such a large stroke due to recovery time/acceleration being way more effective. My topspin (I think) is brush based, and I'm thinking of trying H3 Neo in 41 deg/2.2 with 2 layers booster? Would that be smart from a T05 user's perspective? I'm a backhand oriented player so my forehand isn't the strongest at my playing level :( My forehand from a few months back looks like this (from 0:46 to 1:09) - what adjustments would I need to make to switch from T05 to H3 Neo (apart from hardness) Edited by SmackDAT - 06/08/2017 at 10:07pm |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Acceleration is key. In China, we talk about 透板/打透, or through the racket, when making a quality, strong fast loop. To do that, you need 爆發力, or explosive force, and for that you need a substantial amount of acceleration to get the racket up to speed.
Size of the stroke - as large as necessary but also as small as possible. The key here is to "liberate" the elbow. Let the elbow take part in adding speed to the stroke. It doesn't have to be straight like a pole, but it should never be bent like a chicken wing. BTW, pay attention to having the trunk initiate and lead the arm throughout the stroke, from the backswing to follow-through. The arm should work like a pendulum moving on inertia alone. Edited by zeio - 06/08/2017 at 11:04pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1528 |
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Blue player would have no difficulties in using H3 Neo. Red player would have a harder time switching. Rather than boosting, consider using a (significantly) faster blade (e.g., from OFF- to OFF or even OFF+).
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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Hi Patrick, I am the blue player, why is it harder for my friend to switch compared to myself? I am using HL5, but I'm used to T05 on an koto/ALC blade, but I might try H3 Neo as it is! Thank you
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yogi_bear
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try improving your ball contact and brushing the ball
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onehander
Member Joined: 07/17/2015 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Switch to H3neo and play. You will figure out how to use it. Book smart can only get you so far, like trying to learn to swim by reading an instruction manual.
But there's no real need to switch. T05 with koto/alc is classic.
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BrunodeDanann
Super Member Joined: 11/12/2007 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 278 |
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ALWAYS brush the ball
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Harimoto ALC
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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Thanks guys I've just ordered a 41 deg 2.2 H3 Neo, should be fun, will have to boost cause the 41 degree hardness would be unplayable without apparently!
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gekogark1212
Gold Member Joined: 05/06/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1121 |
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Was gonna say: BOOSTER
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(\__/)
(='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake, (")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake. |
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Chairman Meow
Super Member Joined: 10/04/2016 Location: Hell, Michigan Status: Offline Points: 290 |
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I play with unboosted H3 41 degrees (non-neo), and it is fine. You don't need to boost.
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-1 ply Cypress 11.5mm "The Castigator"
-H3 Prov. Blue Sponge 2.2mm 41 deg. -H3 Prov. Orange Sponge 2.1mm 37 deg |
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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when usure, the best strategy is to get max hardness and then soften it to taste
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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I play with 41 degree. It will be very different from Tenergy. It is much slower and has a totally different trajectory. It blocks and pushes a million times better. You can put a lot more into your shot and have it stay on the table. I found my hand grip is critical with H3 to maximize it's potential for me personally the looser I can keep my hand but still have good finger pressure the faster and spinnier it plays. I would not boost till you have played with it. H3 is going to play different after a few hours of playing than right out of the package. It does have a break in period. Last keep it clean and covered. Good Luck!
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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I play with T05 and 1 layer of Falco and really enjoy this hardness so I'd probably need to boost quite a bit! Will probably try it naked to start though, but it would suck for me at the start
Edited by SmackDAT - 06/10/2017 at 9:50pm |
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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Thanks!! Is the trajectory lower than tenergy? I find even with low throw rubbers (Rakza 9 I used I think) lifting backspin is easy, but countering with 05 against high level players is difficult! If it's low throw that would be amazeballs!
Edited by SmackDAT - 06/10/2017 at 9:52pm |
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kurokami
Gold Member Joined: 11/08/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1277 |
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no. red player would have an easier time. your (blue) technique would work better with jp/euro rubber. more of your output comes from the rubber currently. if you want to switch to h3, you will need to smack dat more. ;) case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB0Ykciw5I seriously, not size of stroke nor difference in acceleration. T05 actually requires more acceleration to get a good grip. it's more a difference in how you contact it. i use h3n provincial and T05 interchangeably.
Edited by kurokami - 06/11/2017 at 12:11am |
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Viscaria
H3N/T05 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami |
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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I am still puzzled that people always go to H3 when switching to chinese rubbers; assuming they do so inspired by the success of Ma Long & Co.
Top chinese players are not using H3 - their rubbers are very low throw, while any H3 version you can buy is high throw. Even the official product description of H3 reads ""Hurricane III" was designed for the players who mainly adopt control method or have relatively weak attack power when playing 40mm ball." Doesn't that sound a bit suspicious, Ma Long weak attack power? Anyways, IMO H3 is just the watered down, easy to play version of H2, which is faster and has true low arc, making it the closest to an actual pro chinese rubber you can get. It also makes it impossible for average players to counterattack your loop. H2 is easily the superior rubber - provided you can use it. I don't want to dishearten you, try H3 and if you like the characteristic, you can still upgrade. |
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t64t64t64
Silver Member Joined: 06/13/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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everybody here is ma-long or at least Timo boll :D
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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61764&PID=734709
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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Very true, why don't the chinese public/provincial players prefer TG3/H2 Neo over H3 Neo then? I know the CNT have custom low throw sponges but it's weird how it isn't more popular among the Chinese (as well as American/British public, but ofc it takes a lot of skill to use low throw tacky rubber, despite this I think most Chinese amateur/semi-pro players can though?)
Edited by SmackDAT - 06/11/2017 at 3:38pm |
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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H2 makes no sense for the way Ma Long or any if the new players play. You need the higher throw for more margin of error at distance. H3 is a far superior looping rubber. H2 is great at the table but I did not like it anywhere else. Compare the way Wang Liqin played vs Ma Long.
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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3:08 onwards, ML uses super low throw rubber. I do agree with you though, the new gen are leaning more towards H3 vs TG3/H2
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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An enthusiast from Taiwan has measured and compared the pips of H3 Neo topsheets and his findings showed that H3 Neo is closer to H2 then it is to H3.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Roger Stillabower
Silver Member Joined: 02/17/2011 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 804 |
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I thought H3 and H3 Neo was the same top sheet and sponge with the only difference that the Neo has a glue layer on the sponge, and if there was a difference in the pip structure would'nt they have to use a different ITTF number on the top sheet ? |
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Shifter
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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If the rubber sheet changes it must get re-approved and get a new number if not it is illegal. ITTF even makes you send in a red sheet and black sheet for approval. You also have to pay for each color to be tested. When i last looked at getting a rubber made it was around $3000 usd to get a new rubber stamped. You do get a discount after your first rubber .
Edited by jpenmaster - 06/11/2017 at 7:30pm |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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It is way different. The topsheet base of H3 is much thicker and tougher. H3 was released in 2001, way before the serial number was implemented, in 2008/9? The H3 now comes with the topsheet of H3 Neo, but without that layer of glue. Edited by zeio - 06/11/2017 at 7:44pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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There are 2 approved H3 topsheets(excluding nittaku). The old original and the new stamped one. As far as I know all the current H3 are 24-108 including provincial and national.
Edited by jpenmaster - 06/11/2017 at 8:10pm |
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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Sorry, but I think you are not making any sense here. I was in Düsseldorf and I can safely confirm that all Chinese pro players, including the ones from HK were using extremely low throw setups. Although they use upward motion when hitting, the ball leaves the blade straight and goes only a few inches over the net. Very different from something like T05 of Timo Boll, for example. Just watch Ma Long vs Timo Boll for a display of the extreme difference in throw. Chinese players always use the tackiness for brushing from close and flex of the blade from far from the table to create their own throw angles. Compare WL and ML? Both are using more of a loop driving style, in contrast to ZJK's looping style. This has been confirmed by LGL. That's why ML was using TG3 in the past, it's better for loopdriving. There is not much difference in their FH style. WL just could afford to have a little lower throw because he had more power than ML. Since the topsheet only has to get approved, not the sponge, even if ML uses H3 topsheet, the sponge is completely different and makes the throw much lower. Sure, H3 gives you more safety, but the lower throw of H2, or TG3, H8, will make it much harder for you opponent to play any kind of active stroke against your loops and your countertops won't overshoot the table. Edited by Hozuki - 06/11/2017 at 8:24pm |
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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Since all H3 have the same top sheet the sponge can change the throw . The harder the sponge the lower the throw usually just like a blade. From what I understood is Ma Long uses at least 41.5 degree sponge which is harder than what he use to use a few years ago. H3 has always been a lower throw than Tenergy its not even close. T05 has a ridiculous arc. I personally play with 41 degree H3 on my FH and 37 on my BH and there is a slight throw difference but not to make it play like H2
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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This. I don't agree that harder sponge means lower throw. It does at low looping speeds. Also, the speed of the stroke affects the throw. The funny thing is that harder sponge actually makes the throw higher all things being equal, but at the speed that the CNT are looping, the arcs don't look that high. The idea that Ma Long uses a low throw rubber is just silly. Throw is not only about the rubber, it is also about the stroke. A faster stroke gets a higher throw with a harder sponge. That's why Hozuki's original comment had me scratching my head. H3 is a fine rubber for aggressive looping. You just have to decide whether you want to out in the effort as just about any European rubber is easier to spin with The real advantages of H3 are the top end power and the short game control and deception. Edited by NextLevel - 06/11/2017 at 8:48pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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I switched from T05 to H3 recently cause of the control and its a lot more linear . H3 does have a lower throw than T05 but so does everything except maybe baracuda. I do not consider H3 low throw but maybe cause when I started playing it was with the 38mm ball and speed glue? H2 was one of my first chinese rubbers in the late 90's or early 2000's (don't remember) and it had a really low throw great for driving and looping at the table not what I see from today's game with the poly ball
Edited by jpenmaster - 06/11/2017 at 9:07pm |
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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I think ML does use a very low throw rubber, have you seen how vertical his stroke is in comparison with European players? His stroke is also fast, which you said means higher throw
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