illegal serves removal free arm??

Wow.  Nice.

been awhile.  I visited APW46 last time.  A great time that has to be repeated if only i can get there.

BeaverMD wrote: Why are there three chairs for each table? For towels?

This is in the UK.  They probably having tea between games .

hey if you guys want to come over and visit us ill arrange a table tennis 'rider cup'.
USA v Europe.

mog1111 wrote: hey if you guys want to come over and visit us ill arrange a table tennis 'rider cup'. USA v Europe.

It sort of has been done, mog1111.  In 2000 in Manchester, a USA vs. England veterans' hardbat tete a tete was played best 2 of 3 games to 21 points.  England was represented by Dennis Neale, a former international, Henry Buist, England's best full-time hardbat player, and Jeff Ingber, a top junior player for England in the early 1950s.

America's stalwarts were Marty Reisman, winner of the 1949 British Open, Steve Berger. a student of 10-time U.S. champion Dick Miles and later to become the 2000 National Hardbat Singles Champion, and Scott Gordon, substituting for one of America's best hardbat players, John Tannehill, whose passport didn't arrive in time for him to be able to play.  I was there both to watch this shootout and serve, if need be, as target practice for Neale, Buist, and Ingber if one of our players were to come down with a case of scurvy or a torn anterior cruciate ligament or something.

We Yanks did not fare too well.  Reisman defeated Ingber, but lost to Buist and Neale.  Berger lost to Neale and I believe Buist, but defeated Ingber.  Scott Gordon played very well against Neale, but lost to him, Buist, and Ingber. 

The showdown was a lot of fun to watch, and the hospitality shown us was first-rate.  Mancunian veteran table tennis players recognize good pong when they see it.  One of them said, and here I am paraphrasing somewhat, bloody hell! I thought I knew what table tennis was, but this is really table tennis!

Straight, no chaser.

How many faults did they call?

LUCKYLOOP wrote: Neither one of them removed their free arm after the ball toss.

ZingyDNA wrote: LUCKYLOOP wrote: Neither one of them removed their free arm after the ball toss. What? I see both of them removing their free arm after the toss. The free arm can't magically disappear instantly after the ball leaves the palm, you know.

Their serves seem fine to me. If you want to see blatantly illegal never moving free arm out of the way, then watch pretty much any of He Zhi Wen's serves.

Baal wrote: The explanation is like in the movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Aliens have taken the form of nearly every ITTF international referee, and some forum posters and moderators, with the evil aim of destroying table tennis through illegal serving. In this way they will control the planet. How else can we explain that these serves are almost never called. They are also responsible for ZJK fan girlz.

Edited by berndt_mann - 09/30/2017 at 12:47am

Baal, consulted with my international umpire and he confirmed I was correct and the arm should be removed immediately, not left dangled and just moved last minute.

So the original post by mog is confirmed correct by an international umpire.  Regardless of whether or not it gets called, it's still the rule.  You do have to allow for the momentum of the hand when projecting upwards, but surely it should be removed by the time it starts its downward path.

Edited by pongfugrasshopper - 10/09/2017 at 6:41am

I see this thread title and every time think that removing the free arm seems a little harsh, to say nothing about the problems with throwing the ball up with only one arm.

tt needs 3 judges, one for net, and two behind table (one per side), to use camera and react quickly after service.
It would be even easier to make software to signal if the ball is hidden from camera behind table in any moment during service. Today's cameras and softwares are very advanced and detecting one white circle object on non'white backgroud would be easy.


Edited by garwor - 10/09/2017 at 9:10am

pongfugrasshopper wrote: So the original post by mog is confirmed correct by an international umpire.  Regardless of whether or not it gets called, it's still the rule.  You do have to allow for the momentum of the hand when projecting upwards, but surely it should be removed by the time it starts its downward path. Edit: BTW, Jennifer gets a warning for not removing the free arm for the serve at 2:30 in the link that igorponger posted above.

I don't know the exact words mog used when he talked to his international umpire.  His phrase "not left dangled and just moved last minute" is not at all what I am saying is allowed but also not may players do that.  And I have learned that subtle details of wording are crucial, and with no offense intended to mog, the only thing I really have to go on is what actual international umpires actually do in the most important events in our sport.  Bear in mind, the highest levels of umpires are used at the most important events.

So, why ittf don't change rule to The space between the ball and the net is defined by the ball, the net and its indefinite upward AND DOWNWARD extension.
These two words can solve many conflicts and time.