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Estimate my Rating! Plus Advice Welcome! |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 at 6:10am |
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Hey, thanks so much Ben. There are a few reasons.
Why does he serve mostly to my forehand? It's because I'm left handed. Most students always end up using what they're most comfortable with, even if it's not the best strategy. They usually play right handers, and most people are weaker on their backhands, so they serve mostly in that area. At the end of every match, I always stress to them the importance of serving to a lefty's backhand and short. Why does he always serve long? It depends on the student, but most students serve long because it's much easier to get into a rally. The people they usually play against (even stronger than them) are much more passive, and don't consistent attack the long ball like they should. Because they always practice long serves, their opening against a heavy, shorter push is very inconsistent (I generally push with more backspin than their usual partners), so they try once or twice, fail, then fall back to their long serves, trying to rely on spin variation instead, which generally doesn't affect me at the spin levels they are generating if it's to my forehand... As for the blocking, I think I do this, too, so I suspect the reason is that they feel like they have a lot less time than they do to aim for the corners or cross court. Their regular partners are probably also less consistent, so just getting the ball back on the table has a good chance of them netting the point. They end up just passively blocking straight, which usually ends up being in a place I can continuously attack with my forehand. And another very important reason is that I just included the more fun rallies in this video :) And since my forehand is more consistent, when we did have a longer rally, it was usually because it was me attacking with my FH and him blocking. By the way, I saw the link to your TT club in Oregon. I've only been to the USA once (went to California), but if I ever get the chance, I'd love to visit! It's an inspiration to see that you accept anyone, even people who can't afford to pay. Looks like a great venue.
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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Your strokes look so much better than your old videos. It's great to see you improvement. Question: is there a reason why this kid only served long and mostly to your forehand? Even his blocks were to your FH. It's like he had a death wish.
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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@balldance Sorry!! I didn't notice your post... I'm really bad at pushing no spin. At the moment, I'm returning them with no spin by just opening my racket and pushing forward to match their motion. It works... but it's not ideal. I need to learn to do like an over the table chop on those for a more aggressive return.
Recently I've been paying more attention to getting in quickly and taking the ball right off the bounce if it's a short underspin serve, and that's been working quite well. But I sometimes misread the length and get jammed. So I still need more experience with it. My BH pushes usually have an okay amount of spin. Probably more than the average player. But you're right about my backswing. I think it's a little too small at the moment... |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Here's a video of me playing with a high school boy (he's in year 10). I haven't played him for over a year, but the last time I played him, I lost 2-3. This time I won 3-0, but it was quite a close match.
Here are some of the more interesting shots from our free play after the match. Recently I've been overly obsessed with form and various other things, which I think is important if I want to improve, but on that day I set a different goal. I didn't think about anything at all. My goal was to move around A LOT. Just keep moving. I wanted to feel like I actually had a good workout. |
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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mickd, I think you're far better than the lefty, not even close. His serves are too high, and return of serve is weak. He was playing a very weak player and still didn't look good. He did have a powerful forehand, but against a tougher opponent he might not get the opportunities to make those shots.
Put the lefty in the ICC club in California and he's under 1000. |
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balldance
Super Member Joined: 01/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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hey there, you looks better than the last time. Especially your FH. I think it's much more consistent now, and has a little more power.
Although you still need to improve it with weight transfer. You still hits with your arm too much. Your arm is not the problem, but actually your legs and body. Try to use them more instead of your arms. Thinking of pushing something up and forward with your whole upper body when hitting the ball. Are you pleased with your BH push? I don't think it's good enough. It's inconsistent and sometimes it lacks spin. You wait the ball to come to your racket and touch it, and rely on the spin that the opponent gives you. IMO, you need a little back swing before pushing/slicing the ball to have more spin and consistency. It's basically the whip mechanics like other strokes, if you watch the push tutorial videos carefully, you will see, they wait the ball to come, swing the racket back a little and then push forward. With the correct technique, you can push long no spin serve which I think you can't really do consistently at the moment. |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thanks for the info. Personally, I do think I can beat the kid (just based on what I saw from that video). I know you think differently, so we might have to agree to disagree here lol. No way to say for sure unless we played!
I think he'll struggle with my serves, and I think I could return those spinny balls. There are a few very spinny players at the clubs I go to and they all struggle with my blocks. I'm pretty good against the slow spinny loops if they don't have lots of side spin. If he's good at following up the attack though, then maybe it'll be tough. The reason is because the spiniest player I know who loves slow spinny loops just happens to be one of my practice partners. He lacks consistency though. A year ago I would have really struggled with them, but I got used to them. The other opponent though, I couldn't see much from that video, so hard to say. Maybe he is much better. From the points I saw though, he looked lacking. If you have more videos of any of those 2, it'd be great to see.
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el luchador
Super Member Joined: 01/26/2016 Location: south Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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He is a kid I play with. Like many of us leftys, he has a big forehand and a weak backhand (Im a lefty too)
His rating is currently USATT 1320 and he has never been higher than that. this is the kid I had in mind when I said a rating of 1000-1150 because I don't really think the OP can beat this kid. He has a very very spinny ball but he does lack consistency and his backhand typically lets him down. the opponent he is playing is a REALLY good player. He will beat almost everyone under 1700 at the club. he won that match, and will basically just find the opponents weak point and exploit it. he also is very good at putting the ball back on the table and he plays a very relaxed game. He doesn't play sanctioned competitions so he doesn't have a rating but I don't know of anyone under 1700 that can beat him. Edited by el luchador - 10/20/2017 at 11:04am |
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Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Hard to use as a comparison if you don't know his rating!! Unless you're waiting to let us know!
I think I'd give the kid a really good match ;) He reminds me a lot of the high school kids that play table tennis here. Some I can't beat, but most I can. Tho their levels range so much that some would smash me and some I'd win really easily, even if they've all been training for the same amount doing the same things. Generally those high school students are like him in the video, even more "out of control" than me, hehe. That said, it would be great to see more from him, especially if you know his rating. His consistency was pretty low in that particular video. His opponent didn't particularly do anything in that video. I feel like against that opponent, I would have had a pretty easy time as well, without as many consistency issues.
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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Hard to say. He has big shots but no consistency. Maybe 1700? Maybe better but I can't tell cause no rallies.
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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el luchador
Super Member Joined: 01/26/2016 Location: south Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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here is a vid of another young lefty FOR COMPARISON.
he plays actively in sanctioned competitions. what would you say his rating is? please pardon the language https://youtu.be/DTmgX_gsqJw
Edited by el luchador - 10/20/2017 at 7:37am |
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Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda
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Lightzy
Super Member Joined: 09/18/2017 Location: T-A Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ScVK0M6hMk
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bard romance
Gold Member Joined: 02/18/2016 Location: FL Status: Offline Points: 1185 |
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Losing one game to a guy who you were clearly better than, and went on to beat clearly, (Player 2) doesn't mean much. And that guy is probably 1500 or so. If anyone can still watch the point that started at 00:20 and think that guy is only 1100, I'm shocked.
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thanks guys. Recently I've been spending more time doing BHs than FHs during practice, and it's the reason why my backhand has actually improved a lot compared to a year ago. I've still probably practiced my forehand like 2-3 times more, so that's why my BH is so underdeveloped. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to play as much as I used to (like 4-5 times a week over a year ago, compared to 0-2 times a week recently). I'll keep working on being more aggressive with my backhand. Placement is something I definitely need to abuse more of. I actually think I need to go down the line more often. Anyone who knows me knows that I always aim for their backhands/middle.
@pongfugrasshopper Off memory I served a lot of side/side top and side under against player 1. Most my side under serves had a lot more side than under, too. A year ago when I played him, if we got into a pushing rally, I always lost the point. I'd either push it into the net after a few tries or drive it into the net. But I think I'm getting used to heavier spins now. So maybe it isn't too bad! Maybe in the USA since there are a lot less players, most players are more dedicated and play at a higher level. Player 2 is easily better than 50% of the players here. I'm not sure how that translates though. I definitely won't call him just above beginner. But yeah, it might just be because there are more actual beginners here (especially students and older people). I lost the set against him due to a series of unfortunate events, and me trying different things. It's quite easy for a few things to go wrong and to lose a set t_t Similarly, I've taken sets off player 4 in the past, too. Never 2 sets, though!! Player 3, yeah I lost strategically too. Thanks!! I'll definitely keep working on it. I still feel like I'm nowhere near my peak.
Edited by mickd - 10/18/2017 at 11:24am |
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pongfugrasshopper
Premier Member Joined: 03/22/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3659 |
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Player 1 has good serves in terms of spin, but I question how high that toss is. You say he has heavy backspin, yet nearly all of your serves are underspin. Try no spin, medium length serve to allow you to open up easier.
Player 2, at least from the video, looks to be about just above beginner level... maybe 11/1200. I'm shocked that he even got a game off of you and is the main reason I rated you lower. Player 3, as you mentioned, is a very good off the bounce counter blocker. Note that she wants to control the middle. She is uncomfortable at the angles which is where you should direct your attacks. For the most part your loops were not strong enough to affect her at her cross over point. Attack the angles where you had success. Player 4 is clearly a number of levels above and looks like he had to back off a bit. He's a good example for you to mimic. I like pgpg's revised estimate (1500+-150). Keep up the good progress!
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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As I said in the other thread, your BH is basically an arm only stroke and is probably your largest bottleneck now. You have to give your BH a lot more time than your FH at this point in your development otherwise you risk letting the FH oriented game be ingrained into your mindset. As I have said in the other thread, you are not using your body and not brushing the ball hard when you topspin. Bring your elbow in front of your body, and don't think "I'm just going to safely put the ball with a bit of topspin to the other end", think "I'm going to load this ball with so much spin that you won't be able to handle it." You have to be willing to let your ego down, lose matches to train up your BH. Although playing safe may win you matches in the short run, it will slow down your development in the long run...Commit to performing the BH topspin whenever you get a long ball to your BH!
Another thing is that you need to use the table more, go for the angles and jam the elbow, now it just seems that you don't pay much attention to the placement. All your shots should be very intentionally made to make your opponent feel uncomfortable and not just to return the ball back safely. |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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Lightzy
Super Member Joined: 09/18/2017 Location: T-A Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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Good luck friend, I think we'll all be very happy to see more videos of yours from months to come :)
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thanks Lightzy. You've identified some really good points and given me some great advice. You've basically highlighted the two things I dislike the most about the way I play at the moment. Issues I've been thinking a lot about for over a year now, but have had trouble fixing.
I absolutely hateeeeeee how I lean too much on one leg when doing topspins. It's really high on my list of things I'm trying to fix. I've been thinking that the cause might be because 1. I take the ball too late or 2. I'm too close to the table, or a combination of both. This is one of the big causes as to why my balls are so slow. They're still quite spinny, but way too slow to really finish the point. My backhand is a work in progress, and I still can't do most of the things I can in practice in matches yet. Way too many issues with it lol. I'll work on waiting for the ball to come. Sounds so easy but it's quite difficult to train. =( @mts388 Haha yeah, he definitely expanded on that a lot more! EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention, player 3 is actually a woman in her late 30s hehe. She's just really small.
Edited by mickd - 10/18/2017 at 1:36am |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Sorry NL. I didn't really mean to generalize the statement when I said it, especially since I agree with you. It was more that I felt like the short serves would disadvantage me, rather than my opponents not attacking it.
In this particular case, I've played these people before, though not often, so I was following what I felt like worked well and didn't work well in the past. Player 1 puts so much backspin on his pushes that when I served short with underspin, with the extra spin from his push, I had a lot of trouble attacking the third ball. Maybe now I could do it though, since it was probably close to a year ago that I last played him. So my general strategy was to serve long or half long, with side or side and top to get his return to pop up a little. Serving short didn't make it harder for him, but I felt like it made me less consistent with my opening. Player 2 I probably should have served short more often since I don't have any problems with his pushes. Player 3 I also had the same problem as player 1 in the past (maybe like 6 months ago). I'm not 100% sure her pushes are especially heavy, as I think player 1 pushes heavier, but she's good at making the ball come just a little shorter than I think it would, and I end up missing a lot, with many of my openers going into the net. I found long no spin balls to be the most effective in the past, and the only reason why I could take 1 to 2 sets is because I served nearly all no-spin long serves to her middle/backhand. The sets I didn't, I lose quite badly. That said, this time I used a lot more side spin balls, which I felt were quite effective. She definitely can't attack my short balls over the table well, which gives me a consistent chance at a third ball. I just sucked at the third ball. Maybe now I could do it though.. Player 4 is just much better than me hehe. The most effective serves in the past were actually short top/side spin serves. I didn't really do many in that match because they would only be effective a few times at most. I thought that I'd have to play riskier to get the points. Since he wasn't really attacking my long serves, and his openers I felt like were simple enough for me to get a chance at a third ball, I didn't change it up. I felt like playing from a short ball would play more to his strengths. All that being said, I know I'll need to play more short serves to practice against it. I just felt like in those cases, those serves were better. But even if I was playing to win more than practice, I should have used more short serve variety. I actually did a lot less than I usually do. That said, my instinct is changing all the time due to changes in my ability and experience. And my ultimate goal is to be at a level where I feel like I'm taking a big risk whenever I serve long. I really do appreciate anyone who takes the time to reply, and while it sounds like I'm disagreeing with you with my reply, I do agree with you. My instincts just don't agree with my logical self. Hope that makes sense!!
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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Very good observations Lightzy. Much better than my "you're out of control" statement.
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Lightzy
Super Member Joined: 09/18/2017 Location: T-A Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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OK.
I give you 2 observations and 2 training suggestions 1) Don't jump or stamp or stand up one one leg when doing forehand topspin. All the power is lost into the ground or directed not where you want, ruining the shot and worse, leaving you unbalanced and too slow to react when someone actually knows how to block a topspin or return it. Look at how you jump and stamp when you topspin in the clips. DONT DO THAT. Rotate the hip, transfering weight from the forehand knee to the other but without moving them from where they are. Look at the footwork of the kid from the 3rd clip, the last shot where he beats you, that's how your feet should move in preparation to the shot and during the shot itself (very small very precise movements). In fact, that last point in the 3rd clip, from serve to the kill shot, the kid's footwork was gorgeous, absolutely beautiful, you must copy that exactly. Even a very good player will look at that footwork in some awe, I promise you. Also the guy who's much better in the 4th clip. Look at the legs. 2) Your backhand is the typical awful backhand. I'm not saying that to offend, it's the same as EVERY player who wasn't coached properly or is just a beginner, same problem for everyone and also me until I noticed it and practiced it --- you're moving your arm towards the ball and 'touching' it lightly instead of keeping your arm back, waiting for the ball, and executing an actual backhand stroke that's fast. Like you do when practicing backhand to backhand. I hope. This happens in games generally because your reaction time isn't fast enough (so you feel, it's not true) and you feel that you have to return the goddamn ball however way, that just touching it would be enough, better than not touching it. But it would be a lot better for you to not do that. It's not just a bad shot, but you're effectively training yourself to repeat it. Just wait for the ball to come and execute the correct movement with speed when the ball is close to you. Even if you lose games to begin with. Training suggestion: 1) ALWAYS topspinning/flicking every third ball (not pushing/chopping except in serve return), while making sure your feet ARE PLANTED SOLID AND UNMOVING (but knees bent). Sure you'll lose but you'll improve 2) Playing matches with friends using ONLY backhand, using footwork to get you around. Sure, you'll lose, but you'll improve Edited by Lightzy - 10/17/2017 at 11:32pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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This is a very wrong-minded approach unless you really believe that your opponents return your short serves better than they return your long serves, which in my experience is only true if they push short or have strong flicks, and even in that case, you probably won't develop a good backhand opener if you don't have strong short serves. I serve short not because my opponents attack long serves, but because many of my opponents return short serves poorly because they lack over the table strokes. Looking at the girl you struggle with for example, I find it hard to believe she returns balls when she has to reach over the table as well as the long easy serves you gave her, but what you have written that I quoted leads me to believe you think that. Amazing.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thanks guys! I think I play well under pressure. I probably play in close to 10 competitions a year. Japan has a lot of local tournaments. The only problem is that they're mostly all team competitions, and my team isn't very strong, so the group we get put in is not so difficult. I usually win most of my matches.
I did serve mostly long or half-long in those matches. I just did it because I felt like those were the most effective serves. If my opponents can't or don't attack my long serves well, no reason to serve short ;) There were some games before where I served short often, but that was mainly because I was practicing, even if it was an actual tournament. My opponents didn't look so strong, so I served short to practice my third ball or backhand opening. You can see them from my other thread here. Here is another one from that tournament that I don't think I linked. But yeah, my opponents aren't so high level. Edited by mickd - 10/17/2017 at 10:47pm |
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BRS
Gold Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1587 |
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The sub-1500 estimates are laughable. You are in the 1700s usatt. Watch from :20 to :35 in the first video and you can see this is no 1300 player.
Your fh is good. It could be better, but it's not your problem right now, imo. You showed no evidence of having a bh attack in these sets. If we were playing I would try to pin you on your bh until you gave me an easy fh attack. And all your serves were long. Maybe it doesn't matter there since most of the time your opponents didn't attack them. But eventually you have to be able to serve short. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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The spin level is too low. The stroke looks right, but the acceleration is too small compared to what it should be to generate good spin. The last video with your opponent's shots shows what 2000+ (likely 2200+) acceleration looks like. He is the one player in all the videos who looks like he is in a completely different class from everyone else.
That said, the form of your game is correct and it can easily evolve into a 2000+ game once the acceleration (brushing for spin and going through the ball for spin drive with early timing) and backhand issues are resolved. You really should be putting the ball past people with one shot more often given your form but the timing is just too late.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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pgpg
Gold Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1306 |
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Right, and you are going to run into a lot of different styles in a tournament, especially at the lower levels (almost everyone is a 2-wing looper at 2000+, it seems...). So this is something that can keep your tournament rating down, until you figure out how to avoid costly losses to LP players, blockers, SP hitters etc. Then I feel one should subtract few points for 'playing under pressure against unfamiliar opponent' situations, which casual club (and even league) matches mostly lack. So, perhaps I'll revise it to 1500+-150 - based mostly on the fact that I played few folks this weekend that looked similarly to you in some aspects (great opening FH, rallies, movement), but performed at ~1500 level in the end. Your league rating would probably be higher, as BH-Man pointed out (mostly matches against familiar opponents with low stakes). Still, you are looking good here - plus we could be way off as well, that's just how it is with the videos.
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USATT: ~1810
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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What a wide spread of the estimates !!!!!
As low as 1100. As high as 2000.
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skip3119
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thanks guys. Usually the more orthodox the player is, the better I do. That said, the more orthodox the player is, the more likely they are to have been coached at some point, and thus decreasing my chances of beating them anyway lol.
Most players are unorthodox in their play, and thus I struggle because experience becomes more of a factor. LPs aren't unorthodox, but has the same feeling because I have a lot less practice against it. That said, I'm starting to feel a lot more comfortable against it, and I think in another year or so, I'll probably have no problems against it at the level I'm playing now. I've only been playing about 2 days a week recently (with even less some weeks, sadly, and usually one of the sessions I spend helping middle school kids improve). I think everyone does much better in practice. I concentrate a lot more on form in practice. I think more about strategy during matches. @BH-Man Oh, I completely agree! This thread really is just for fun. I play in a completely different environment, and we don't have rating systems like America. I kinda wish there was so I could see my improvement a little more objectively.
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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mickd, in USA, your rating would fluctuate by region, you could be 1300 in a few places and mid 1500s to 1600 in some others. Some places, your league rating would be higher.
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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I'm going with the 1600+ also. I'm 1700+ and I think you would give me trouble. I think my LP's would give me the advantage (win). I also agree that your training skills are probably better than your match skills. Your play appears to be a little on the wild side. At times slightly out of control. |
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