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Some new Soulspin custom blades |
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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Posted: 06/04/2020 at 1:32pm |
I accidentally stumbled over two blades from Gewo produced by the German Soulspin company. The Konigsklasse Karbon Sieben and the Konigsklasse Funf. They both play specifically well in their own style. What impressed me the most was the quality of build. So I decided to order a couple of blades with some light customization to their main line of products. Yesterday my order got shipped and I got a couple of photos from Lukas who was very helpful in placing my order. Here are the photos:
The construction of the blades are: Blade 1: Black Limba top (0.3mm) - Spruce mid (1.0mm) - Ayous core (3.4mm) total thickness 6.0mm Blade 2: Koto top (0.3mm) - Spruce mid (1.0mm) - Kiri core (3.4mm) total thickness 6.6mm Blade 3: Spruce top (0.6mm) - Spruce mid (1.0mm) - Kiri core (3.6mm) total thickness 6.8mm Blade nr 3 has the new era handle developed by Soulspin. for comparative purposes I will list the construction of the two Gewo Konigsklasse blades: Gewo Konigsklasse Karbon Sieben: Limba top (0.55mm) - Ayous mid (0.55mm) - Kevlar Carbon - Ayous core (3.0mm) total thickness 5.8mm Gewo Konigsklasse Funf: Koto top (0.6mm) - Spruce mid (0.8mm) - Ayous core (3.1mm) total thickness 5.9mm I know Soulspin built the Meister and the S-series for Nittaku as well but I do not own any of those blades myself. I'm curious what are other players experience with these soulspin built blades and what is the secret of the Spruce used by this german company in their blades?
Edited by robertantal - 06/06/2020 at 9:26am |
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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lasta
Member Joined: 12/04/2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 86 |
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Hi Robert, I'm curious what your thesis is for each blade? What do you hope to achieve from the variations? Cheers!
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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I played with fast carbon blades for a long time then I realized the speed is holding me back from playing safe and strategic so I switched to pure wood blades. I mostly used ayous core what is similar to kiri but a bit denser so the blades with that type of core tend to be a bit thinner than the kiri core blades. I also favored Limba wood for top play for the ability to create crazy spiny balls but soon I realized that after you develop a god brushing stroke actually Koto will be less sensitive to the incoming spin and works just as fine as Limba at creating spin. Then I played with blades with Spruce mid veneer and I fell in love with the extra speed and poer what you can unleash at a more powerful stroke reminding me of my one ply Hinoki blades.
After all this I decided to try Kiri as a core and keep the Spruce mid veneer ordering custom blades from Soulspin. I also experimented with harder top weneers like Walnut and Ebony but my stroke is not god enough to play a spin orriented game with those woods. Also if you favor feel and spin over speed the 5 ply blades are better than the 7 ply ones.
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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Hipnotic
Silver Member Joined: 09/30/2019 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 772 |
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Soulspin does have some nice quality blades. There isn't a secret to their spruce, is just the way that is cut. Basically they cut entire sheets lengthwise from a log, instead of the traditional way which is the rotary cut. I've actually just bought a batch of really nice spruce as well and can't wait to use it in my blades.
However I have a negative experience with some of their blades, but I think this may not be their fault. I glue most of the rackets in my club, and some sponsored kids by Donic play with the 89 range. Well, the control quality on these ins't great and I had Waldner 89's ranging from 90g to 110g! This is because the grain pattern on some of the spruce is very dense, and of course the veneer will be heavier than the average.
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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Have you heard of the brand PimplePark? They have two new blades the pila and the sica a 5 respective 7 ply all wood blade what looks to be a high build quality as well.
Edited by robertantal - 06/05/2020 at 4:21pm |
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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Hipnotic
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Yes, I've hear of them. Looking at the handle shape and veneers really seem like it's also built by Soulspin .
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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Pimple Park has a DEF rated wood as well called "Filius" what looks like a Soulspin build: Edited by robertantal - 06/06/2020 at 9:40am |
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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Hipnotic
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I've heard of them too. Do you know about the brand "SDC Blades"?
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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No I did not... I believe the quality of the wood used and the build itself it makes a much better blade when it comes to companies like Soulspin compared to the mainstream big brand companies who did not pay attention to the detail and does not select the best veneers except for the top veneer what is directly visible. Some even use core veneer joined from multiple pieces on their premium blades like Donic!
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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Hipnotic
Silver Member Joined: 09/30/2019 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 772 |
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I'm SDC, a small blade builder from Portugal. You can check my post here if you'd like: http://mytabletennis.net/Forum/sdc-handmade-blades_topic86864_page1.html
Regarding the jointed cores, I do use them on Kiri and Balsa blades, but mostly because it has been impossible for me to find boards wide enough to make blades. However, and this has been discussed in several places, jointed cores can in fact be equal, if not better, than one piece cores.
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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Nice Blades!
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1026 |
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I wish jointed cores fans try to inject a little intelligence in their rationale.A blade maker will save money with a jointed core so saying that "jointed cores can in fact be equal , if not better" with no science whatsoever to back it up has no value, it is empty a statement, a marketing gimmick that takes people for fools.
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Hipnotic
Silver Member Joined: 09/30/2019 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 772 |
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First off, I'm a Civil Engineer, so I know a little about structural integrity of materials and their mechanical properties. I also happen to be a blade builder and know a little about wood. I don't need to use gimmicks, I tell people the truth and never hid the fact that I use multi piece cores, It's their decision to buy a blade from me or not.
I've stated some arguments, I can post them here again: "A multi piece core (2,3 pieces) doesn't affect performance. In fact, it can be better than a 1 piece core for several reasons: - Glue is stronger than wood - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f90QoWOs9TE - Wood is not homogeneous so it's easier to select similar pieces (density, grain direction) - Paulownia (Kiri) is a relatively small tree, so bigger pieces are more likely to have more discontinuities - Less waste" I don't know your credentials other than being a very frustrated forum member with big brands for using multi piece cores. I haven't heard a single argument from you as to why single piece cores are so much better. |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1026 |
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I am not against multi piece cores, I am against the absence of science to back up the idea that they are equal or better when the main goal is to save money.
Xiom are proud to use one piece cores and they advertise it. Don't you think they know what they are doing? don't they have credentials? Your arguments are not valid especially the glue being stronger than wood. If we want continuity and homogeneity, whether the glue stronger or not is irrelevant, there is a break in the core! there is a break in the core! there is a break in the core! there is a break in the core! Get it? some people don't like it and don't like the fake marketing around it. Blade makers who can't find homogeneous enough, small, 280mmX160mm pieces of wood that are a mere 3 to 5mm thick probably are too greedy and procure among 3rd class providers. Then, when they come and say that glue is stronger than wood so it's good for the customer, I feel taken and it annoys me. Last, who says that any "discontinuity" is worst than a break in the core? A discontinuity in appearance does not necessarily mean a density variation that can be felt, that can matter for play. OAOH, a break in the core makes another kind of blade and it should be advertised that a multi piece core is used. A luxury brand charging a premium and feeding us bullshit marketing to justify their savings in procurement is laughing at their customers in whom they see hillbillies ready to pay for whatever they see in an ad. I understand that a one man shop will follow them though. it's the easiest path for them. Kudos to Xiom for doing the right thing! in their own words: One piece veneer without material - saving joint fabricated structure Edited by stiltt - 06/08/2020 at 4:48pm |
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Hipnotic
Silver Member Joined: 09/30/2019 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 772 |
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Still not reading any scientific argument from you. Just saying that my arguments aren't valid because you don't like them doesn't count.
You remind me of the guitar snobs that bash on guitar makers for using multi piece bodies. Can you also hear and feel difference between one piece and multi piece cores? Just do a blind test and you will prove your super powers. Have you have ever even seen a kiri board? Let's put all those knots and weird grain patterns in your blade,I'm sure it will be a lot better than a perfectly jointed piece of wood with a glue that is stronger than the material itself! Again, NO ONE is advertising one piece cores and then using multi piece cores, you can't fault anyone for something that is just your expectation. I wish I could get wider Kiri boards, even if it was just to satisfy the ego of wood snobs like you. I do use one piece Ayous, WRC and Spruce cores, Urray for me! I can just as easily say that Xiom is making marketing gimmicks claiming they use one piece cores. This coming from a brand that also uses hyper axylium, cold press whatever, super arylate, and the world's first ever hybrid blade (except there were plenty before that). But kudos to Xiom for doing the right thing - not gimmeckly at all! But why am I arguing with you? I'm not gonna change your mind, and I really don't care what you think. Just don't go saying that I use marketing gimmicks and take people for fools. I pride myself on my honesty, I don't charge premium prices for my blades and I never lied or hid the fact that I use multi piece Kiri cores.
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1026 |
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The burden of proof is on you. Again, I am not against multi piece cores, I am against the idea that says it is equal if not better, which you said.
I totally trust your blades btw, they are fantastic to watch that's for sure. In the end, we want the same blade from one to another within a model so if there is consistency in the way the break in the core is made then it's all good.
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Hipnotic
Silver Member Joined: 09/30/2019 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 772 |
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I already stated my case, that is proof enough for me. I have built one piece and two piece Ayous blades and they feel the same.
This is the core of one of my blades. I bet that if you played with it you wouldn't even suspect the core was like this. Sorry OP for stealing the thread.
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stiltt
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wow wow wow you are a believer!!! what a neat idea to save weight.
There is enough consistency in the spacing between holes to not feel any difference, especially with the 2 plies of wood on top on each side. if I may ask, why not going all the way with the holes in the handle middle and bottom parts? are you looking for balance maybe? are you trying to compensate the additional weight of modern rubbers so the holes are for the playing surface only? I am not asking the legality, we know the answer. It's a great idea. How much weight do you shave off the core that way in your typical (3mm?) kiri core?
Edited by stiltt - 06/08/2020 at 6:28pm |
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Hipnotic
Silver Member Joined: 09/30/2019 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 772 |
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I wanted to keep total integrity in the part that is most stressed, which is near the tip of the handle. But I did cut a slot in the handle part.
This only translates to a ~17% weight reduction, so it's only useful for heavier woods. In a kiri core with 3mm that's only ~4g, not enough difference to make it useful.
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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Regarding the core construction to achieve homogeneity would it be a solution to saw the core in two sheets and flip one over that way if the grains are inconsistent the tighter part will overlap with the more spaced out part on both sides. Of course this will make the blade stiffer but it could increase the consistency of the core. Even ply blades are not to popular so I assume there is a reason behind this, maybe somebody has the answer for it...
Edited by robertantal - 06/09/2020 at 9:06am |
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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Hipnotic
Silver Member Joined: 09/30/2019 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 772 |
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That is basically what I already do. I buy boards with 1000x100mm in several thicknesses. These are usually sequential boards, so the next board is very similar to the previous one. Nonetheless, I make sure they are the same weight, Thickness, clear of knots and imperfections. After that I cut the boards in 3. Then I need to create a flat edge in each one to join them perfectly. If needed, I bring them down to the correct Thickness. This is actually much more labor intensive than one piece boards, those just need to be the correct Thickness and are ready to go. So much for the argument of the easy path...
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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I was referring to slice the core in half so in stead of having a 3 mm core you end up with two 1.5mm slices with one of them flipped over and that way the core would become a 2 ply. Maybe having a single ply core should offer more feel to the blade than a two ply core...? Is that right?
Edited by robertantal - 06/09/2020 at 9:53am |
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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Hipnotic
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I don't see the advantage in that, then you would need an additional layer of glue plus another 1.5mm layer that could have different properties. Also, slicing a 3mm board in half is really difficult and the result are not two 1.5 pieces but less, the blade also has thickness.
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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Here is an example of the core being made of multiple pieces where the grain runs in different direction.
This is what I do not like... It is a Donic Blade what got returned due to may cracks in the core as well! Edited by robertantal - 06/20/2020 at 10:38am |
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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stiltt
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he he he it feels good not being alone.
Multiple pieces with the grain going in different directions all over the place? they don't even try to hide anymore, come on! I learned earlier that it does not matter since the glue is stronger so, the more core pieces, the more glue to join them and the less the wood matter anyway since the ball ends up bouncing more often from the glue, right? That's the logic that was pushed all the way to ultimately give birth to the Revoldia concept, "dust and glue". GENIUS!!! Leibniz would be proud.
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mykonos96
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the grain is not aligned, what donic model?
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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It was a Donic Crest AR+. The blade was close to $200 and I expected more for this price range. I Purchased the same blade twice from a different dealer and it was great quality. Why such a big variation from one blade to another?
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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stiltt
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quality control? people at the factory may play games to not go over their budget and the people in the finance department don't care until somebody like you raises a flag.
edit: my gosh! some of the best minds re. tt material told me the Crest AR is so fantastic, that English man comes to mind, I forget his handle atm he did not posted for a long time.
Edited by stiltt - 06/21/2020 at 2:54am |
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nv42
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I've found that even on a super expensive mj slzc! Even though the cut was super clean and you'd have to really stare closely to notice any difference.
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robertantal
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2011 Location: Costa Mesa CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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crest at+ it is awesome by the way if you don't mind the 90+ weight. Mine is 95.5g and it played wonderful. Under 90g the blade tend to be a bit slow... My second blade was 87.5g and I preferred the heavier one...
Edited by robertantal - 06/21/2020 at 7:17pm |
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Robert
Butterfly Timo Boll 40th Anniversary FH: Xiom OmegaV Tour / BH: Xiom Omega VII Euro |
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