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rating guess again |
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astaroyd
Super Member Joined: 11/02/2020 Location: hebemes Status: Offline Points: 279 |
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Posted: 12/10/2020 at 9:49pm |
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check at 1:50
check at 3:18 the us players seem to be more regular in the bh. in fh both videos look similar. also I think at this level the us guys are already taking it pretty seriously. training a lot. that's why they are more regular. the chinese are definitely not high level in china... so chances are they are just hobby players without too much serious training. that could explain some of their mistakes which are pretty basic.
Edited by astaroyd - 12/10/2020 at 10:17pm |
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idk
Silver Member Joined: 07/11/2011 Location: Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 790 |
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159 is not including people who's ratings have expired or are not USATT members. that is a large chunk of players. things you would know if you actually had a clue about USATT.
Edited by idk - 12/07/2020 at 4:55pm |
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astaroyd
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159 from 320 million. that's 0,000049% of the us population easier to spot an alien
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idk
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quite a large handful now, though i thought you would know that based on how youve commented in this thread
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Valiantsin
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Nice question :)
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astaroyd
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how many US2400 players are there?
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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in the US nobody gets over 2700's because there's nobody to beat over 2700. But if the best domestic players are around that rating, the top pros are probably over 3000.
that's what I've always read as the "pat" answer to this question
Edited by cole_ely - 12/07/2020 at 10:58am |
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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I don´t understand much about the numbers of these ratings.
If we pick a world and olympic champion, like Ma Long or Zhang Jike, how much would be their ratings? Is there a maximum number to reach?
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cole_ely
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The footwork just isn't there to be tickling 2500. They're too off-balance.
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idk
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and for the players in the video, they can't do it with any consistency at all, even though they try, and that is the reason they are not 2450
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idk
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the reason is that there is much more competition and way more players in that skill range (18-2300) in China. if they are in the 1900s, seems like 2100-2200 is in fact the reasonable estimate.
Edited by idk - 02/10/2021 at 12:04am |
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astaroyd
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one interesting point is the chinese after the initial spiny loop will always counterloop with fh if they can.
the us players even up to 2500 all have the habit that when one of them loops the other one just blocks (even if the ball goes to their fh). the habit of counterlooping everything is an advanced technique used by pros and could put the chinese around 2450 !!!
Edited by astaroyd - 12/07/2020 at 6:54am |
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blahness
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Honestly I thought it was the full match too, if it's not then I would agree with mickd too...
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balldance
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Very fair assessment. I also watched it again and i would adjust my estimate to 2200-2300. Still think they are too one dimensional to be 2400. Some of you guys only look at the attacking shot quality, but table tennis is so much more than just attacking shot quality. If it’s all about the quality of attacking shot and looking spectacular, Kanak Jha wouldn’t even get to top 200 world ranking. He gets to top 30 with his consistency, soft touch, blocking, wise shot selection, etc.
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Lightspin
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I spoke to someone tonight from China about the Chinese rating system. It sounds even more confusing than the US system. He said that 1800 in China roughly correlates to 2100 in the USA. However, he said that a 2400 player in China is about the same as a 2400 player in the USA. What does this all mean? I am not sure, but if I get the chance I will ask more Chinese players about it.
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mickd
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I'm readjusting my estimate down by 50+ points because I thought it was the whole match. But you're right. It's only a highlights video. That said, they showed over 50% of the points it seems. So yeah, take 50+ points, possibly even 100 from what I said earlier :)
I still think they are 2200+ though. But maybe not 2400+ anymore. between 2200-2350. It's a large range, but we aren't given so much to go off.
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blahness
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Comparable and in some instances even more advanced. For eg the side-under chiquita that the penholder did is such a disgusting shot...it even drew some oohhs and aahs from the audience lol...it's not your normal chiquita which even I can do...
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lgxb
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Sorry, unfortunately I don't.
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idk
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how would you compare the serve and receive in the OPs video to that in the match between the two 2400 juniors posted earlier on this thread? Edited by idk - 12/06/2020 at 3:31pm |
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astaroyd
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I just analyse the videos.... the hard cold data. I avoid my memories, my imagination, my wonderings because it gets pretty subjective. if you have other videos I can analyze please share them.
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blahness
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Precisely, and this is why shot quality (serve, receive, loop) is so important in terms of measuring playing level.
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idk
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do you play tournaments in the US, at these levels? seems like the international crowd gets a very wrong idea of certain levels of play when all they see is various highlight videos.
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astaroyd
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the difference is the first two balls after serve. serve receive and an eventual 3rd ball attack. in 2200 50% of the points end before this 3rd ball attack is done successfully. in pros and also the chinese video most of the points reach this area of 3rd ball successful attack. from there yes, it will never go much further (in average).... even at world class level.
Edited by astaroyd - 12/06/2020 at 1:54pm |
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Tt Gold
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I disagree with he idea that the rally’s get longer the higher the level goes. A lot depends on the players style. When one player is a good service/receive player, the match is bound to have few longer rallies. Then you have players that are good at blocking, or players that just don’t have the last bit of power in their to to win in 1-3 shots, which they make up for with being able to play more lower quality shots on the table. The higher you go up in levels, the higher the quality of shots, tactics etc. gets. Higher level players also have problems returning serves, just as lower level players do. It’s always the same thing. I feel you had problems with serves of players that were around 1800 and you improved and encounter less and less difficulties when returning their serves, it’ll show in you rating. But then you’re playing against 2000 level players. Yes your return game got better, but their service has more quality, which starts the same circle again.
Edited by Tt Gold - 12/06/2020 at 12:41pm |
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astaroyd
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actually the pattern is not that similar. serve return error for the chinese: 0 (21 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball missed: 3 times (16 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 13 (18 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 9 (11 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 7 (3 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 3 (1 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 1 (none for US) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct -next ball missed: 1 (none for US) ------------------------------------------------------- if both matches lasted 70 points (real duration of the US match) it would look like this: serve return error for the chinese: 0 (21 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball missed: 6 times (16 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 26 (18 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 18 (11 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 14 (3 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 6 (1 for US2200) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 2 (none for US) serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct -next ball missed: 2 (none for US) Edited by astaroyd - 12/06/2020 at 12:24pm |
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idk
Silver Member Joined: 07/11/2011 Location: Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 790 |
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not entirely true. do you play in the USA?
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astaroyd
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this pattern stays the same at least until 2400
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idk
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if we had the full match video of the original post, the counts would probably look the same
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astaroyd
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I actually counted the points. here are the results: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- serve return error: 21 times unfortunately at 2200 this is the most likely thing to happen ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- serve return achieved - next ball missed: 16 times third most likely thing to happen this would look like... serve-push-loop missed or... server-loop-block missed ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- serve return achieved - next ball achieved - next ball missed: 18 second most likely thing to happen in general this would look like.... serve-push-loop-block missed ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- serve return achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball missed: 11 times these are not very common in general this would look like.... serve-push-push-loop-block missed ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- serve return achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball missed: 3 times these are very rare. could look like serve-push-push-loop-block-loop missed ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- serve return achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball missed: 1 time this actually happened because there was a net in the point ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- so really this is still the level for primorac + mark v .... just put the ball on the table. if you want longer rallies it starts at 2350 or 2400 really
Edited by astaroyd - 12/06/2020 at 11:29am |
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idk
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lgxb, or anybody else know how a 1900 chinese rating converts?
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