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Upping speed - Primorac Carbon? |
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Rollko 
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 Topic: Upping speed - Primorac Carbon?Posted: 12/23/2020 at 8:50pm |
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Hi All,
I'm currently using a TB Spirit with Tenergy 05 on FH, however, with plastic balls, despite putting a lot of effort into my FH loops, the output is fairly slow and doesn't have the speed/spin and penetration as I would like it to be. It's a general fact that top players don't really use those super fast carbon (Tamca) blades, however, they regularly put on fresh new rubbers (not to mention boosting), which adds a significant level of speed/spin - very different to using the same old rubber for months. Without boosting and using the same a-couple-of-months-old sheet of T05, a T05 & TB Spirit combination just feels a tad too slow. Would a Primorac Carbon be a solution? How does it compare to ALC blades in terms of stiffness, sweet spot, power looping, 3rd ball attack opening, looping against backspin etc?
Edited by Rollko - 12/23/2020 at 8:57pm |
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andzejgolot
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Posted: 12/23/2020 at 9:59pm |
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lol. You probably dont play with better players,
Find 3+2ply blade even if it cheap yinhe blade with the same composition. You will feel too much pressure... My solution... Choose Tenergy 05 hard Spirit is great blade, you will not find something better. Maybe mizutani zlc....
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TT newbie
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Posted: 12/23/2020 at 10:05pm |
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The natural upgrade in offensiveness coming from a TBS would be Iolite, however it´s not sold anymore.
PC has a different feel of TBS, much harder touch, easy speed and much less control. I´m not sure about the sweet spot but I´d say similar to TBS, maybe slightly bigger. Power looping with it is so fun, this is its best feature. But opening topspins requires more attention than TBS. I believe this is the biggest "cons" of PC: the lack of feedback. Because the blade is so stiff and hard you don´t have a proper feel in sharp strokes.
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yogi_bear
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Posted: 12/24/2020 at 5:44am |
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replace t05 with d05.
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ghostzen
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Posted: 12/24/2020 at 5:44am |
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If the output is slow try and improve the stroke a bit if you can. Adapt so you can get more power by creating more of a topspin driving action in the open play. You can also try shortening the stroke and driving through the ball a bit more instead of brushing maybe?. |
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ghostzen
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Posted: 12/24/2020 at 5:45am |
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Good idea
 with give you a bit more agree |
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Rollko
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Posted: 12/24/2020 at 5:54am |
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So my main issue is that I use short pips on BH, which makes the bat lighter and less head-heavy; I feel like the centre of mass is too much in the handle and I don't have that stability, speed and precision on power spin strokes.
Funnily enough, I feel that having a lighter less head-heavy bat forces me to hold it tighter - with a heavier more head-heavy bat I would have been able to hold it more loosely and use the actual bat for precision rather than my squeezing it tightly. Would you say that such a bat allows for a more relaxed play? D05 could be an option, especially as I feel that against similar/weaker players I can easily dominate with T05, however, with better players, controlling their spin etc is a bit tougher with T05 as if T05 has an upper limit where D05 has more potential. With D05 being slower than T05 though, how would that help with speed? And what about D09c? Edited by Rollko - 12/24/2020 at 5:56am |
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blahness
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Posted: 12/24/2020 at 6:49am |
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D05 is very similar to T05 I feel, it's improved in some aspects. D09c is a completely different rubber concept, it's more akin to a highly tuned/boosted national hurricane 3. 09c requires that you have very good stroke mechanics to maximize its potential, just like hurricane 3.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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jpenmaster
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Posted: 12/24/2020 at 9:02am |
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Since you are a pips player and want something faster I would suggest taking a look at the Xiom ice cream AZX. It’s faster and the 2 different composites may offer something better for your short pips. D05 is going to give you more gears than T05 but make you work a little harder. In the end they both have similar performance . If you have no issues in service return, short game and the responsiveness of T05, Dignics may be a waste of time. If you really want give Primorac carbon a shot. It’s going to be totally different being so soft and stiff but you won’t know if it works for you unless you try it. It’s been in the Butterfly catalog for a longtime for a reason.
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Rollko
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Posted: 12/24/2020 at 4:27pm |
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I've already tried D05 on a Viscaria, but found it a bit too slow. It was quite a light Viscaria though (84g), so maybe on a 92g TBS that I have it may be a bit different?
However, what stroke me was a significant increase in control, especially in passive strokes, blocks, placement etc. With T05 I felt winning points was all about speed and spin, with D05 I felt I could actually place the ball wherever I wanted and play a bit more strategically, still maintaining similar spin with a bit less speed though. What makes D09c seem attractive to me is the increased weight to make my bat a bit more head-heavy. Is it worth the decreased speed and ease of play though? Another thing to take into account, which I already hinted at, is boosting/non-boosting - I've heard that many D09c users boost it heavily. As I don't boost, I wonder if it'd still offer the expected advantaged even without boosting?
Edited by Rollko - 12/24/2020 at 4:29pm |
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blahness
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Posted: 12/24/2020 at 5:49pm |
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I don't think people boost D09c??? You'll probably spoil the rubber lol... D09c takes it even further in terms of spin and control and gears than D05. The control over serve and receive is unreal, which is the primary reason why I play it on both wings. But if you don't have good biomechanics for looping you're gonna struggle with it I feel. Once you put some real power into the loop though, you get massive amounts of spin and power (even way more than D05 which I tested out on my friend's setup). The low end gears are very slow, if you bounce a ball onto the rubber the bounce dies off in two or three bounces.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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jpenmaster
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Posted: 12/24/2020 at 8:34pm |
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If you are looking for more speed and you choose D09C you will be very disappointed.
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blahness
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Posted: 12/24/2020 at 9:18pm |
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Fully agree with this. D09c is very slow unless you hit hard with good form.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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Rollko
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Posted: 12/25/2020 at 11:49am |
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What about Dignics 05? Would that help increase the speed in high gears compared to T05?
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ghostzen
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Posted: 12/25/2020 at 11:53am |
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Thinking about it what about a heavy mazunov maybe?
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Rollko
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Posted: 12/25/2020 at 3:34pm |
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I quite like the carbon feel actually, a 95g TB ALC would be ideal but hard to come by
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Shifu
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Posted: 12/25/2020 at 3:42pm |
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It’s highly likely that the problem is your technique. Improve that instead of using a crutch to make up for that.
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GSOM_GSOM11
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Posted: 12/27/2020 at 2:51pm |
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Primorac Carbon is not the best blade for short pips, beware.
Maybe a heavy Clipper or Avalox P700 will be a better solution, these blades are more suitable for SP. With these ones you can also loop more agressively 'through' the ball without losing spin.
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Rollko
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Posted: 12/27/2020 at 3:18pm |
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Why isn't Primorac Carbon best for short pips? I thought its stiffness would be beneficial?
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GSOM_GSOM11
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Posted: 12/27/2020 at 4:17pm |
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It's too stiff and speedy. Blocks and counterdrives go very fast and flat, without any arc, like you play with a bare blade. If you land such a shot, it's virtually unreturnable, but it's impossible to land them consistently and control your placement. SP gameplay is all about intellectual placement and picking chances for a kill, not a one-shot 'nasty' return a-la LP pushblocker. I'd prefer control and feel over disruptive effects. IMHO.
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astaroyd
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Posted: 12/27/2020 at 4:38pm |
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there's a review here with primorac himself
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Rollko
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Posted: 12/28/2020 at 8:06am |
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Does the speed of Primorac Carbon come from a quick rebound and very little dwell time, or the flexibility adding a kick onto the ball? Providing it seems to be stiff and soft, I assume the former?
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blahness
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Posted: 12/28/2020 at 8:28am |
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I have a friend who plays primorac carbon, and I feel it's exactly like how Primorac plays in the video, it's all bang bang bang table tennis, ie get to topspin rally and go hard and fast with small strokes. There's minimal dwell time and feedback, you just basically need to have super good ball feeling and hit hard. If you do that well enough it's amazingly overpowering to opponents who use slower blades (assuming you manage to get into a rally and didn't get destroyed in the serve/receive game) It's quite a valid style to play too, and if you do bang bang bang table tennis it should suit you. |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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DonnOlsen
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Posted: 12/28/2020 at 8:39am |
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Hi, Not in dispute is the presence of unique characteristics of a given rubber. Insufficiently appreciated is the interrelationship between the rubber characteristics and the techniques used to deploy the rubber. As a specific example: Tenergy 05 or Tenergy 05 Hard stroke techniques will produce unimpressive shot outcomes when applied to Dignics 09C rubber usage. In contrast, Dignics 09C stroke techniques will produce outstanding shot outcomes when applied to Dignics 09C rubber usage. Butterfly would not produce a flagship rubber for mass sales into the hundreds of millions of potential customers that required boosting for high level performance. Needed for Dignics to be in full flight are Dignics stroke mechanism techniques that reflect the inherent qualities of this specific rubber. These techniques must be discovered and developed by the player. On a side note: the impressive topsheet engineering advancements in the equipment field of the sport forced Butterfly to produce Dignics. Tenergy's topsheet was evolutionarily moved to a representative of a prior generation. Within the full spectrum of shot types in advanced table tennis play, Tenergy's topsheet is inferior to Dignics' top sheet. Thanks.
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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TT newbie
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Posted: 12/28/2020 at 9:59am |
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I could not agree more with this answer. Did you use SP before? Short pips on stiff carbon blades are useless. Even with ALC blades I found them hard to control. The best options for SP are 7-ply blades like Clipper ou soft carbon blades like Ma Lin Carbon or Soft Carbon. |
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Rollko
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Posted: 12/28/2020 at 10:49am |
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Stiffness and less dwell makes the pips less spin sensitive, which is indeed preferred. Please note that I use them for blocking/hitting through spin/driving, not chopping away from the table.
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astaroyd
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Posted: 12/28/2020 at 11:12am |
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for me pc feels more woody, with more dwell and feedback than viscaria, freitas, mizutani. it's logical since the outer wood layer is super thick in pc. also don't forget many girls like petrissa solja, daniela dodean, even lily zhang play with blades that have this kind of construction like pc. basically pc is fine and a great blade as long as you don't go too far from the table and let the ball drop too much. so it's perfect for girls because they always play close to the table.
Edited by astaroyd - 12/28/2020 at 11:13am |
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Skyline
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Posted: 12/28/2020 at 2:04pm |
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I'm long time primorac carbon user and I can not think of a better blade for my game. It's great for blocking, countering and near the table quick attack style of play. It's very stiff but much softer and more controlable than Gergely Carbon ot t's cheap clone Ovtcharov Carbospeed. The feeling and touch are awesome compared to similar blades.
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Rollko
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Posted: 12/28/2020 at 6:57pm |
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Skyline,
What rubbers are you using?
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Skyline
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Posted: 12/29/2020 at 4:05am |
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Tenergy 05 and 64
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yogi_bear wrote: